If you are reading this on an archive site, be sure to check the original URL to see if it has been corrected, updated, or retracted. Some elements originally present have been redacted; any person named here may request redaction. I will so so if the mention is not mission-critical. A private request, not made abusively, will not be published. I reserve the right to publish comments and requests that are, in themselves, abusive. Requests may be made by comment on any blog comment page, must verify identity if possible and must provide a working email address (which will not be published)
To keep trolling, of interest only to few, off of the main page here, I am moving comments from the original pages here (I had inadvertently not enabled comments on some pages, but this is better. Comments that amount to trolling may be deleted, but some stand as evidence in matters of concern. Generally, I do not reveal IP information from my server logs, but Anglo Pyramidologist is an unusual case. I do, here, reveal IP as part of exposing how AP operates, routinely lying. I have additional private information that I have not yet revealed; I will do so if necessity arises. It is, at this point, extra evidence, frosting on a mud pie.
General note: Oliver Smith, in private email from an address known to be his, denied having made any of these comments. (And repeated here.) In one place, he ascribed “99.9%” of the previously-identified AP socks to his brother Darryl, but that is clearly exaggerated. He’s more than that, perhaps much more.
- Tron “Hilarious stuff, dude”!
- Skeptic from Texas yeah, right!
- Eveshi the concern troll and blackmailer
- IP information covering comments to that point.
- [redacted] is a nazi lol Is not! Is so! Is not! Who cares?
- Ari Silverstein isn’t Ari Silverstein, but tells us [redacted] is a nazi, but a nice guy.
- “David Smith” protests but does not specify the page involved and is quite mistaken, if real, but he’s not real, and I say why I think that, and if I’m wrong, I suggest a way to fix the situation.
- “David Smith”again claims authorization to speak for the family. I satisfy certain requests.
- Sarah trolls, repeating the past misleading fact as if present actual fact, common for Smith.
- “Bill Cooper” lies about being a British attorney, for the Smiths. Isn’t that illegal?
- “Bill Cooper” lies again, this time to threaten the Smiths with assassination. That is definitely illegal! Is this mikemikev or some random troll? Much more likely: AP (i.e., Oliver or Darryl Smith).
- “David Smith” continues useless rant about mikemikev.
- Agnostic Steven offers helpful advice, poison?
- Roxy the dog — Roxy the fake dog? What?
- Not Dave probably Darryl, but maybe Mike. Mike? Is this you?
Tron 188.8.131.52 2018/01/21 at 11:19
Hilarious stuff dude. Thanks for the laugh. You spent literally tens of hours posting wild allegations you cannot substantiate. There’s no evidence linking any of these accounts you list, nor can prove who owns them; for all I know you own most of them.
“Tron,” thanks for adding more evidence. The IP used here geolocates to close to your home; it also shows up on whatismyipaddress as a possible proxy server, but the frequency with which you have used it makes me think you have more connection with UK Dedicated Servers Ltd., than just using an open proxy.
Hundreds of hours, not tens. I started by compiling evidence, not allegations, though you treated evidence pages as allegations, often lying about the content, and you continue to do so. Compilations of evidence quickly become long, and many won’t read them.
(I write polemic later; polemic is necessarily brief and to the point. In mature hypertext, evidence will be linked from polemic.)
The evidence I have already provided links the accounts, and there is technical evidence. It’s conclusive, as to some accounts. Others are merely the same obvious MO and special interests. So … you are lying here as you have been lying for a long time. You know I don’t own those accounts, because you do. Were you a sincere, independent user, you would not hide behind a proxy server.
The claim came up of impersonation in my exposure of the impersonation socks, the Wikiversity custodian who had blocked [redacted] asked the stewards if [redacted] was connected with any of the socks. No. He wasn’t. Neither he nor I could fake checkuser reports on Wikipedia and by stewards.
Once I was blocked on Wikiversity, I began mentioning the name, i.e., Oliver D. Smith (though some accounts may be the brother, Darryl), but only as a reported allegation, not as fact. Then, just the other day, I searched for and found compilations of evidence; I checked it, and did some of my own research. I’m a journalist, though not formally trained. I could defend a claim of libel based on the evidence I have collected, and my opinion is that some of those you have libelled have a cause of action. Whether or not it is worth pursuing depends on such details as whether you have property.
You have, with years of work, created a web in which you are caught. Anyone who cares to find out can now readily identify who you are and what you have done. I made the linkages carefully and tentatively, keeping in mind the possibility that one of your many enemies — you created them! — had impersonated you. No. They could not fake your geolocation.
You are an enemy of science and humanity. Your paper on Atlantis was well-written, but contains a fatal flaw, in which you demonstrate that you do not understand scientific and academic reserve. You claim that Plato lied, a very strong claim, for which you present only weak circumstantial evidence.
Your RationalWiki writing is far worse; you make statements giving sources that do not confirm the statement, unless one squints and conflates a single incident with a pattern.
Your habits betray you, constantly. I would not have done all this research if you had not attacked the original study on Wikiversity. Your insanities in that convinced me that there was something worth spending more time with.
You have done us all one service: you have exposed the vulnerabilities of wikis to people like you.
Those who live by outing and harassing will be outed, and such people will consider outing “harassment.”
One more point. “There is no evidence” is the common refrain of pseudoskeptics on many topics, when a more honest statement would be “there is no evidence that has convinced me.” Carl Sagan was aware of the deepest problem when he wrote Contact. In this case, though, your testimony is not to be trusted, because you are anonymous, so your personal opinions have no weight. “You have no proof!” is the common refrain, as well, of con artists and fanatics.
Real life, and real science and Law, run by the preponderance of evidence. We don’t need to wait for “proof.” for a criminal conviction, the standard is “beyond a reasonable doubt.” I am personally quite so convinced, but I’m not certain I could convince a jury. Maybe. It’s amazing what a skilled lawyer can do. I just watched it in a real lawsuit, over in excess of a hundred million dollars in claimed damages. As to defending a libel suit, truth is a defense, and for a journalist, in particular, it is enough that reasonable care be taken in presenting allegations and conclusions. For liability, the absence of due diligence must be shown. Again, I’ve studied actual lawsuits.
From the beginning, with every study, I invited specific correction. None appeared, except for the MrRowser flap. I had not claimed MrRowser was you (so, among other things, he lied about the study), but when he showed up to attack, two years later, using your arguments practically verbatim, that did convince me. You are totally visible to anyone who actually looks. You depend on the existence of others who jump to conclusions and don’t look. Wiki means “quick.”
Ah, one more point. Anonymous trolling will not be allowed to continue here, but Oliver D. Smith could certainly speak for himself. I would want verification, because there are may be impersonation trolls out there, but he could easily verify his identity. He’s specifically invited. If he remains silent, he continues to be responsible for the obvious appearances. I will write him, inviting this. [Oliver showed up, by email from a self-published email address. It was him, I conclude.]
I am not showing the email address above, probably fake.
Will the real Oliver Smith or his brother stand up? They never do. [except Oliver later did, and I congratulated him. But then it was as if he disintegrated in the sequence of emails. The claims of schizophrenia might have a basis].
Instead, since a few possibly honest posts in 2011, they pretend to be someone else. So far, they have requested nothing, and the various studies invited corrections, which were never offered. Just general attacks.
Skeptic from Texas
Skeptic from Texas 184.108.40.206 2018/01/21 at 18:38
I do not recommend that you post peoples personal addresses on your website that you are now doing, this may backfire! You are posting peoples addresses (family members) of people who are innocent. This is a cowardly act and could potentially lead to legal suits and your local authorities contacting you. You are encouraging unethical activity and the safety of innocent people may well be put at stake through your blog posts that dox people.
Lomax all your relatives are traceable on 192 and visible on Facebook. Would you like it if someone created a blog about them with all their personal information like you are doing to others? Of course not! So why are you doing this to others? I am not sure why you have gone down this route of stalking where people live. It is a cowardly act to be targeting peoples families and minors, especially according to one website one of these brothers you dislike is a single parent who is looking after a child.
It is NOT illegal to edit or create a Wikipedia or Rationalwiki article about someone, but it IS illegal to openly dox people including houses that may contain minors and encourage violence to their homes. Allah would not tolerate your coward behaviour and harassment.
“Islam teaches tolerance, not hatred; universal brotherhood, not enmity; peace, and not violence.” Pervez Musharraf
This was probably about this page on Anglo Pyramidologist identity.
The legal advice is not worth the paper it isn’t written on, nor am I inclined to give in to threats (“all your relatives.”)
There is posting and there is hosting. I posted, but am no longer hosting. I’ve been learning tricks from AP. That content is at http://archive.is/MTrp0
I still vouch for it, and if corrections appear appropriate, I will restore the content and correct it, and request a new archive copy.
I have created no blog with “all” of anyone’s personal information. I could find it and publish it, but it is not on-mission. I had a legitimate purpose for all that I have done. The hiding and impersonations (illegal!) — and libel and lies — made it necessary to identify whom I was dealing with. Oliver Smith is monkeying with forces larger than he can imagine, all for what purpose? It is certainly not “scientific skepticism,” because he is lousy at scientific investigation and scientific writing, he cares nothing about faithfulness to sources and to reality. He only cares about making his point, generally that his target is thoroughly reprehensible, tossing as much mud as possible.
No families have been “targeted.” Nothing has been written to inflame passions against any family members, except possibly Oliver D. Smith. Notice that the first post (from Smith geolocation) claimed essentially that the information I’ve presented was false and that I had no evidence. In which case, there is no threat against anyone real. But Smith is real.
This new post very likely is the same person, lying about being from Texas. The IP geolocates to Arizona, but whatismyipaddress indicates that it’s an open proxy. What I have found is that if Anglo Pyramidologist IP (from the duck test) does not geolocate to his immediate vicinity, it is an open proxy.. I have found little or no evidence of “meat puppetry.” If it happens, it is rare. Nobody wants to help him do this. They would have to be crazy.
If there is a brother not involved with the attack socking, I would not expect him to experience any inconvenience at all, and no risk to the child. “According to one website” is very unspecific. I don’t believe anything AP says unless I can verify it. I am open to communication, including correction, but not by anonymous trolls. As I wrote above, Oliver Smith can contact me directly, and so could Darryl Smith. I’m open to communication with anyone about this affair.
To remove information, I’d want credible assurances that the person involved was either not involved in the disruption, or has regretted it — and is willing to take corrective measures. Otherwise, if we live in a house and are shooting at others, our family in the house might get hurt, to make an extreme metaphor.
I made no threats, but I was threatened with massive retaliation for what was not doxxing, but merely documenting the activity of a sock master. Now, giving the name, it is at the edge of doxxing, but still well within what is legal.
The writer assumes that I “hate” the brothers. That reveals far more about how he thinks than about how I think. I admit to being angry when I’ve seen blatant lies about me and others. But my training is not to allow that to become hatred, because hatred disempowers.
And then an atheist attempts to lecture me about my religion, about which he knows practically nothing. (Several socks on RationalWiki attempted the same.) (It is even less cogent than his comments on science.) Islam does establish peace, but also justice. The two go together. Anglo Pyramidologist socks attacked the innocent, cheating and lying. So I exposed that — there is no doubt about it, evidence is totally clear — and I was immediately attacked, with lies about what I’d written. And it went on and on and is still going on. Oliver Smith will get what he deserves, we all will, unless Reality has mercy on him.
That’s another aspect of Islam.
If he wants peace, he will need to turn from his insane vendettas. He is like a violent criminal preaching peace to citizens banding together to protect the innocent.
Two more comments were added today to our RationalWiki page. There have been many claims that the studies I have done are “wild speculation” with “no evidence,” but the difficulty in studying the activity of this sock master is too much evidence, not too little. My initial contact with AP was from a set of impersonation socks he had created on Wikipedia in order to draw retaliation to [redacted], and it had worked. Wikis can be really dumb, not see what is right in front of their faces. And then, sometimes, they can be incredibly and collectively intelligent … when users open their eyes and look, instead of just dwelling in knee-jerk reactions.
I have been aware from the beginning, then, that naive trust in appearances could lead down blind. It has been claimed that I got what AP himself called the “Smith brothers conspiracy theory” from Encyclopedia dramatica, probably from the writings there of mikemikev or michaeldsuarez. I did get some pointers from michaeldsuarez (openly, on Wikiversity, the IP promptly outed by AP — but I’ve known Suarez for years. I may not always agree with his conclusions, but he doesn’t lie.
And what AP socks do, routinely and constantly, is lie. This is not about disagreements or “skepticism.” It is outright lying that seeks to defame and harm. (It is claimed on RW that I call my “debate opponents” or “anyone who disagrees with me,” “liars.” It’s rare. I don’t use the word often, and I don’t use it unless evidence of willful deception is strong. Simple disagreement is rarely a lie.
One of the characteristics of the RationalWiki article on me is unsourced allegation, or allegation with extremely weak sourcing. I’ve seen it in many of the RW AP articles: some single incident that might be, with a jaundiced eye, described negatively, is presented with misleading hyperbole, in the plural. As an example, I was banned on one wiki, the English Wikipedia, in 2011. That becomes “is banned on wikis,” or the like. I commented on the situation yesterday here. As shown there, allegations were added to the article that were obviously wild and utterly incorrect, about “outing minors.” Then they were removed with a comment that the outing had been removed (but then still implying it had been there). But it was never there in the first place, as the archive shows.
Eveshi 220.127.116.11 2018/01/22 at 12:22 am
Lomax dear sir, I know this may come to a shock to you, but you have been ”had”. You have been duped.
The accounts in question are not AngloPyramidologist, nor do the time zones support that, they wouldn’t be up at 5 or 6 am editing articles. He and his brother are being impersonated by an American man from Florida. They are being impersonated by someone called MU “Waller Joel”.
What “accounts in question”? There are well over 300 accounts described, many of them linked clearly to Anglo Pyramidologist (i.e., to the “sock family” so-named on Wikipedia, which might be two brothers). I have not yet done a time study, it’s on the to-do list. Two AP red flags: “Eveshi” and “MU.”
The IP here geolocates to Seoul, which could indicate mikemikev (is he still living there?), except that it offers a “suspected network sharing device.” In any case, it would make little sense for mikemikev to present this, impersonating AP denying AP. I no longer rely on the “it makes no sense” argument. Some people do things that “make no sense.” Continuing:
There is a Rationalwiki page about here it:
Forests I believe was one of the brothers.
Indeed. It’s obvious. And then this leads me to not trust a word he wrote without careful verification.
He has been impersonated by someone called MU. Now this MU person is a dangerous cyber criminal who has been impersonating people online since 2006 at least. His latest fake name was “Waller Joel”. He even did a radio interview which you can listen to, he is crazy.
No link to evidence (but there is something below). Common. “Trust me! I’m an anonymous user, hiding behind an open proxy, but I’m telling you the truth, all those other people are lying!”
I’m not anonymous, I’ve become a journalist, and my reputation depends on probity. There isn’t any comparison. I have not depended on any unreliable source, but on extensive verified evidences stretching over many years. Each piece of evidence might have some possible problem, but in science and in sane journalism we look at the overall weight (particularly where evidences are independent). And liars and fanatics and trolls claim “you have no proof!” — but do not present proof of that statement, which would likely be impossible. (“impossibility arguments” are generally unfounded in evidence, for obvious reasons.)
I have posted this before on different websites, but here is it again. MU!! has been trolling numerous websites and newgroups, Usenet in particular, for over a decade. Do a Google search on names like “Ari Silverstein”, “Frank Camper”, or “wilburn” (preferably in combination with “Usenet”, e. g. [“Ari Silverstein” Usenet], [“Frank Camper” Usenet], [wilburn Usenet]) to see the full dimension of his trolling. As for Frank Camper: There is a real person with that name who is a former American soldier and mercenary. MU!!, under his various names, often claims to be this person (or uses sockpuppets to create rumors about himself to that effect). However, he does the same with remote viewing researcher Courtney Brown and Andrew B. Chung.
Gee, maybe AP is not the only active troll on the internet. But this other alleged troll is not behind the sock ring that collided with me. Florida doesn’t cut it, at all.
Threads about Waller Joel here:
The author of that post could be an AP sock. I’m not going further into it. AP has been active on many, many fora, as shown on various compilations on him. This is not primary evidence, but it might contain links to evidence. This does not connect Waller Joel to the alleged AP socks. Notice that the user “mac” suspects that the author is himself an impersonator. Is Waller Joel an AP red herring? Maybe. I don’t know, not yet. I do know that many AP socks are obsessed with MU or Waller Joel.
(Or there is a subset of the group of apparent AP socks created by an enemy or enemies of AP. But AP exists as a sock family, with identifiable interests and behaviors — and geolocation, and geolocation data is hard to fake, without travelling to the location. Someone with high motivation might do that. I’ve seen no sign of this kind of behavior yet. If lawyers get involved, which is possible, there might be some, ah, “travel expenses.” But they won’t be creating imitation socks.)
Run an internet search on waller joel mu and you will see what I am talking about. This is an enemy of the brothers and he is impersonating them. You do not need to post this on your website. But follow up the links!
The above link is Eveshi citing Eveshi, pursuing AP interests. So I looked at both links and was not impressed. Eveshi has access to places where a real evidence compilation could be done. However, he is never going to be credible as long as he conceals his own identity.
Science depends on reputation; a scientist who fakes data, if it is discovered, has trashed his or her career (because it shows that the person’s reports have been fake, and science depends on the assumption of true reports of experience. This is very, very different from assuming that conclusions are true. Conclusions can be false, but reports of experience must be honest, or the person’s work is worthless. It’s funny that RationalWiki, supposedly dedicated to rational thinking, completely disregards this basic principle.)
I have been also been impersonated by MU and have been tracking him for years. I am well aware about the brothers activities but they stay on the right side of the law. The real criminal is this Waller Joel MU person. He is still active impersonating people to this day.
And who is Eveshi that he has been impersonated? And what activities are actually those of the “brothers”? Remember, on RationalWiki, the “Smith brothers conspiracy theory” is commonly ridiculed. Why doesn’t Eveshi confront this error there?
To make any sense at all, what Eveshi is claiming must rest on a claim that the impersonation socking on Wikipedia was, in fact, impersonation of AP impersonating [redacted]. However, there are many evidences connecting the recent “Michaelskater” socks to other AP interests and activities.
If Eveshi is real and sincere, he could support the efforts to clearly document all the activities. He could distinguish between real AP editing and fake. But …
He is not real and sincere. He is just another smokescreen. He could easily prove me wrong, but I doubt that he will, just as AP socks commonly attacked the studies I’ve done as being full of errors, but never actually pointed to a single error, except in one case, which, from my point of view, ended up proving the claim I had not actually made, that MrRowser was an AP sock.
And then we have:
[redacted] is a nazi lol 18.104.22.168 2018/01/22 at 1:20 am
I will come clean I have been editing your Rationalwiki article and others on hundreds of accounts but I have decided to stop this soon :O, Oliver and his family is entirely innocent. You have been fooled. yet you have been stalking him LOL!! You literally have the wrong guy. Makes me laugh!!!!!!!!
You wanna know who did those impersonations of Leuders and Rome Viharo? It was me. And Viharo he blames it on Oliver and his brother, lol.
I love this, and none of you know who I am!! I have been playing all you guys off against each other. I am using a TOR, good luck tracking me
If someone wants to “clear” Oliver Smith and his brother, they cannot do so using an anonymous account clearly trolling. AP has been claiming that [redacted] is a nazi for years, but what AP claims is a pile of lies, which may or may not contain some truth. It’s meaningless. I have had casual email contact with [redacted] for years (because of the parapsychology resource I created on Wikiversity, not to “promote” anything but to allow neutral study), and I’ve not seen any clue of his being “nazi,” but he’s young and I certainly don’t know about all his prior activities. Young people often hold and express views that later they would disavow. AP attempts to nail his enemies to early errors or transient opinions. It’s funny that he is accusing others of stalking and doxxing, when it is what he routinely does, with many targets.
22.214.171.124 had likely edited Wikipedia: Contributions/126.96.36.199, The edits in October of 2017 particularly stand out. AP would have a series of identified open proxies and would call on them when he thinks his location might be examined. I will later examine the articles for other hits.
188.8.131.52 AP had used the open proxy on Wikipedia: :Contributions/184.108.40.206. (I had seen this before, he was stirring up trouble.) “Skeptic from Texas” is clearly AP, lying about his origin. Notice the block for open proxy. I requested that.
220.127.116.11 is blocked as a vandalism account on Wikipedia. The interest in World Zionist Congress could be AP, but this is very weak. More likely, others have used this open proxy for Wikipedia purposes and abandoned it when it was blocked. But it would work fine elsewhere! However, two edits to RationalWiki with AP interest.
From technical data, all three accounts are very likely the same user (odds roughly one in a million of coincidence).
18.104.22.168 “confirmed proxy server.” whatismyipaddress geolocates this to Turkey, but there may be a German reseller. The WMF global contributions display refers to it. Yes. TOR node. The range is 22.214.171.124/24. The user has not used this range to edit en.wiki. This is the first TOR node hit I’ve seen for AP. I’d expect that usage to increase. This user wants to hide.
And now for something completely different
But actually same old, same old.
Ari Silverstein firstname.lastname@example.org 126.96.36.199 2018/01/22 at 11:58
I am a pagan now converting to Islam and I will help you attack Rationalwiki. This will be my last comment to you as I am now taking up religion and spending time praying to Allah, I will not be online anymore but you can email me, I am Ari Silverstein (Frank Camper). I am now on your side.
Unfortunately, I don’t believe this. If anyone really wants to help, contact me privately. This comment appears — strongly — to be trolling.
The person shows no idea of what Islam is or that Allah is, and uses “converting” in a way that those actually accepting Islam don’t use it. The person assumes my motive is to “attack RationalWiki.” And the names are strong “names of interest” to Anglo Pyramidologist, and there are other signs (such as the use of an open proxy).
[redacted] denies the holocaust “Does it bother anybody that Jews and Jewish organizations have been fabricating hoaxes about “holocausts” of “six million” Jews for YEARS prior to WWII” he wrote on Amazon, but he is a good man despite his racist beliefs
And this is classic AP attack on [redacted]. A link is given:
… because I am not going to pass on attacks on [redacted], no matter what his views might be. He never attacked me or any critical interest of mine, and, suppose for argument, he expressed some racist views, I am not going to nail him to them. He never expressed anything racist to me and my own position on racism is that it is natural human tribal identification, an ancient survival behavior, that has become dangerously obsolete, but I do not condemn anyone for being racist. I do condemn treating people to deprive them of life, liberty, and the rest. I condemn professionals who allow their emotional reactions to people to damage their professionalism (and racism is essentially an emotional reaction, though some cover it up with rationalizations).
“he is a good man despite his racist beliefs” is actually an attack. Hitler was kind to his pets, etc.
I will join you in debunking those atheists and skeptics and alt-lefties. I have converted to your side Mr. Lomax.
This person — Chung or AP or some other troll — doesn’t know what my “side” is. I am not a debunker, and I am not against skepticism, merely encouraging skeptics to be careful, to be genuine skeptics.
We are now on the same side. Let’s go and refute those skeptics like Tim Farley and David Gerard!! They are blowhards like you say.
Okay, stopped clock is right twice a day. Tim Farley is indeed opinionated, and Gerard is weird and … something is rotten at or near the core on RationalWiki, but I don’t jump to conclusions and don’t know the extent of it. I will eventually present the evidence I have, with whatever conclusions seem clear to me — after that review! — and readers will form their own opinions, if they wish.
You and me and now friends, yes? Lets close down Rationalwiki. They do not know real science!!
That’s a huge generalization about what is — or was — a fairly large community.
I am now an enemy of Rationalwiki. Me you and Rome Viharo will make lots of money shutting them down. Cold fusion has been scientifically provens. Them lot of Rationalwiki have no idea do they!
And cold fusion hasn’t been “scientifically proven.” There is evidence that there is a real effect (my paper was about that), but it isn’t your grandfather’s fusion. What I’m doing has nothing to do with making money and I would gain noting from RationalWiki shutting down. To be sure, I might be part of an effort to reform RW, to remove the undue influence of the AP sock army, but if there is a target, it is AP, not RW.
And why would “Ari Silverstein” use an “Andrew Chung” email address? The answer is obvious. He is not Andrew Chung, nor is he Ari Silverstein, nor is he Frank Camper. There is an internet story there that would take much research, but … no. Not without clear evidence. Give me a real email address with a coherent name (or email me through the Wikipedia interface or the RationalWiki interface), I can be reached. I’m not even going to send an email to that address.
The real Ari Silverstein/Chung/MU/whatever is welcome to establish identity and comment. An account with a couple of edits on RW, Waller_MU_Joel_Abd had some interesting things to say, or ravings to express. Blocked by Skeptical. Which means what? I’m quite clear that on occasion, Skeptical blocked himself — or his brother.
… gives a name, a possible family member, same last name, but it is, of course, very common, but this is very unlikely to be such a family member
so I have redacted it. If this is real, the family member could establish it, but the signs are multiple that this is not. The comment posted:
[Given name space Family name, no space, birth year? — redacted]@gmail.com
188.8.131.52 02.08 at 12:14 pm
Hint: if one wants to complain as a real person, based on privacy issues, doing so with a comment intended for publication is quite unwise. As well, using a like-anonymous and very possibly impersonating gmail address would be counterproductive, and using an IP that is completely remote from where the family supposedly lives, i.e,. at the address that has been given, would raise suspicion that something is awry with the comment. Further, in this case, presenting known AP false arguments would again, raise even more suspicion. Yes, conceivably the person with the name given could have moved to Los Angeles, or already lives there. It is merely unlikely. I’m sure he could get an email address for me from the Smith brothers (Oliver has written me), and send me a private email. So as to details:
Can you please remove the personal addresses you have put on your blog? You are now attacking peoples family members and that is not playing fair.
This comment was made on a page that has nothing to do with Anglo Pyramidologist or Oliver Smith, at least not directly. The page where there is an alleged address is /anglo-pyramidologist/identity/ Comments are enabled on that page. Complaints about CFC content that are not on the page with the alleged problem, and that do not include a link to the page with the specific problem mentioned, may be ignored.
The comment is misleading, because, while I originally reported full details from the document that had been published elsewhere, on January 31, 2018, I redacted the names of family members other than Oliver Smith and Darryl Smith, who are definitely the sock masters behind the Anglo Pyramidologist accounts.
You are tying to put my families safety at risk by hosting my families address on your website. Your source of information for this address was a man known as Michael Coombs, he is a neo-Nazi from Wales. In the past he has sent my family death threats. I have law enforcement watching his activities. Why you are citing this man on your blog, baffles.
Accusing me of bad faith, “trying” to put his alleged family’s safety at risk, is not a way to encourage me to cooperate. This kind of demand for allegedly good behavior is common from AP socks. The user here does not identify the family relationship.
As to the source of that information, the original source of information can often be someone hostile to a target. He does appear to be someone I’d prefer not to associate with. Many have repeated that information, and his alleged bad behavior — I have no information about it except that coming from known liars, the two Smith brothers — does not make the information false or irrelevant, and this alleged family member here confirms that the information is accurate and, in fact, public. He claims it is not public because it is behind a pay wall. That’s a spurious argument, the kind of spurious argument that the Smith brothers often make.
The information is not public, he took it from 192 behind a paywall. It is actually doxing and illegal in some countries to do this. It was not public information.
192 provides information from public records that are not easily accessed, and they charge for it. Whether or not what I’ve done is “illegal in some countries,” it is not know to be legal in any jurisdiction involved with my publication. “Doxxing” is often considered an offense on various wikis, but that does not make it illegal. The sources for 192 are public records, that’s totally clear. So someone paid for the data and provided it to Coombs, as he claimed, or he lied and obtained the information himself. I could now consider it fully confirmed as well, except for this comment itself not being fully reliable. A very sophisticated impersonator could be creating that confirmation. There are many such evidences in the AP record, and I call the possibility of impersonation, in this case, the “perverse reverse.” That is, someone pretends to be one of the brothers, posting content that would clearly pass the “duck test,” slipping in revelations that confirm claims about the brothers. Against this: the Smith brothers are intensely vigilant, seeking and searching for issues to use for libel, and they would see such an impersonation and would immediately confront it. I have found one such probable impersonation account on RationalWiki. It was fairly obvious, though.
Rather, impersonation is a common AP sock trait, and there are clearly known examples, with technical evidence.
If you want to write a hundred articles on your website attacking people or skeptics who edit wikis that is fine, that is not the real world.
I do not “attack” anyone as a skeptic. I do sometimes criticize specific writings or actions of specific people. The story that I’m busy attacking people is an Anglo Pyramidologist story. I am actually a journalist, and I cover facts and then may add some analysis. The fact here is that this comment appeared on my blog. I have deleted it, directly, because it was irrelevant where placed, but it is quoted in its entirety here. He is correct in this: what he describes is not the “real world.” He made it up, or he accepted it from his brother, or, possibly, he is someone else — perhaps from Los Angeles — who has been fed a pile of BS by the Smith brothers. He claims to be a family member, so this would be the same: he believes what his family members have told him, but has not personally verified it, or he would know that the names other than Oliver and Darryl have been redacted. Oliver himself has claimed that “99.9%” of the socks are his brother. He was exaggerating, definitely, but he might be quite correct that most have been his brother, and that was claimed back in 2011 on Wikipedia, the same.
You are taking this too far now by hosting peoples addresses on your website which is the real world and can be damaging to peoples lives. There is no reason to be linking to peoples families contact information. Can you please remove all of it?
It can be damaging. The “contact information,” however, only includes a physical street address, given for the twin brothers only. The crucial information is real names. And Oliver and Darryl, collectively, have created articles that defame real individuals by real names, so that anyone considering doing business with them, or otherwise wanting to know more about the person, will find the RationalWiki articles they created with massive defamation, basically lies. As an example, Emil Kirkegaard is called a “neo-Nazi pedophile.” There is no evidence for either; with the former there is only guilt by association, with the latter, no evidence at all. And even if it were true, this can be defamation unless it could be proven true. What is protecting the Smith brothers at this point is the difficulty of either obtaining police action or filing an actual civil suit. Every repetition of the behavior increases the probability that such action, even if difficult, will go ahead. Simply point this out (it’s obvious) will get one blocked on RationalWiki for “legal threats.” Pointing to patterns of socked can and has resulted in blocks for “doxxing,” though showing evidence for socking is never sanely considered doxxing if the real name is not alleged.
The problem here is that revelation of the real identity is one of the most effective actions that can be taken about the alleged and massive libels. The cat is out of the bag, and that information is now widely available. It would be harmless if Smith was not continually creating offense. Piss off enough people and sooner or later someone will take action. If I were to remove the name, it would not protect the family. Indeed, Smith has made sure that pages are archived, so that alleged privacy violations here cannot be hidden. He archived the page with his emails here, which confirm the claims, and, yes, that was him. Ah, technical evidence! (Which Smith has long claimed doesn’t exist. I don’t necessarily reveal it, just as Wikipedia checkusers don’t reveal how they work, citing WP:BEANS.)
I understand you are tiffed off at skeptics and others who have edited your Rationalwiki article. It is not illegal to edit a public wiki. Nobody on Rationalwiki is hosting your real life address or linking to your family addresses on your article or going after your family members.
Lots of people have edited my article, but it was created by an AP sock as revenge, and that is totally obvious. It is not “illegal to edit a public wiki.” Smith often begins with a true statement. But it is, in fact, illegal to defame people, and most wikis will respond to a subpoena, certainly WMF wikis will, and then service providers will also provide logs. That one can often get away with libel does not make it legal.
AP has revealed, in a sock name, that he knows my real address, so he is certainly threatening to reveal it. And, in fact, it’s public information. I have not “gone after” .. Smith’s “family members.” I have not alleged any illegal or improper activity on their part. However, they all lived together and shared internet access at some point, and I suspect that they knew about the twin’s activities. By not addressing and stopping it, they did create some level of risk for the family. But I redacted those names.
When users edit Rationalwiki they have a right to remain anonymous.
“Right” against the rights of whom? If people are defamed, they have the “right” to know who did it. That is, in fact, a legal right.
In fact, in this case, Oliver Smith has now publicly acknowledged creating the articles on John Fuerst and Emil Kirkegaard. Before that admission, the Smith brothers were claiming that the story of a large family of socks were a “paranoid fantasy,” but they clearly knew that it was not a fantasy, so they were lying. That claim is still in my article. It only survives on RationalWiki because most RW users don’t actually look at evidence, or only look for the most shallow appearances. Basic wiki problem, in fact, this was not created by the Smith brothers, but they have discovered that they can outright and plainly misrepresent what is in sources, and will normally get away with it.
If you want to play detective and try and work out who users are on wikis you have the right to do that, but you are crossing the line when you are posting the home address of peoples families. People have jobs and what you are doing to trying to damage real life people.
That describes what Oliver Smith has actually done. What’s really weird is that he was denying getting Joshua Connor Moon’s mother fired. He defended himself by claiming that he didn’t get the mother fired, he only wrote on email to Moon’s mother. Who was also, by the way, apparently impersonated as a blog owner that was almost certainly created by a Smith brother. (But I have not confirmed that story.)
The home address is evidence that was used to confirm IP evidence, as shown by how IP geolocations cluster about that home address. The Smith brothers have been spoiled by WMF policies about IP, and RationalWiki’s protection of socks, such that they think these policies have the force of law. They don’t.
Privacy rights, as a matter of common law, are conditional on the absence of illegal activity, and impersonation and defamation are illegal.
Possible damage to the family is unlikely from what I’m hosting, because I redacted the names of other family members. So if one, for example, is googling the father, or the older brother, those names will not show up as mentioned here. However, they might possibly show up on archived pages, and I can’t do anything about that. A person might be able to have such pages removed from Google searches, and I offered to cooperate with someone I’d mentioned in that, and his response was to claim, in a place where this could and probably did, create harm, that I had “harassed him” by email — which the email record, which I then published does not show. The Smith brothers are not the only people involved who lie in order to cause harm to others!
(I then restored the information, because one who will lie about something like that is better exposed. “Privacy” is not an absolute right. If it were, the RationalWiki articles would be very obviously illegal, even more than the defamation that is common there.)
I am requesting that you remove the addresses you have hosting on your website. Your website is hosted by [redacted] and in there terms and agreement policies they do not host personal information. Please do not make this personal. Thanks.
That’s a threat, matching many from AP. I have again read the policies, and I could find no mention of what this person claims. I will, however, take defensive action. He’s not going to like it. (Trying to gain cooperation with threats is a method that generally fails, but some bullies have been successful with this and thus repeat the behavior.)
(I will remove the alleged violations, but may point to archive copies of the information. I would simply keep it, but removing it this way takes the situation out of what might be actioned by a clueless host, and hosts and administrators can be clueless. I remain legally responsible for what I wrote, but Smith would have to actually file a lawsuit. I’d love it if he did, because I would then counterclaim, it takes the matter our of discretion, and would also be a cracker-jack excuse to raise funding. RationalWiki is actually using this excuse to raise donations, Rome Viharo points that out.)
David Smith again
The threats get worse and the defense demonstrates that this family, if it is actually involved, is not taking this seriously. I think this is just one of the twins, but if this is actually a family member, I’d suggest dropping the threats and, even better, have an attorney, a real person whom I can verify, contact me. A lower cost option would be any real person I can verify. The reason for suggesting an attorney is that an attorney can verify the client. Given what is being said here, the client should be the whole family. What is being revealed is, in fact, a collective responsibility for what has been occurring. If this is just Oliver and Darryl, no, no major responsibility. The name given by this user is a Smith, but not one of the known names from the family.
[gmail account redacted]
184.108.40.206 2018/02/08 at 5:47 pm
The thread I was talking about was this one http://coldfusioncommunity.net/anglo-pyramidologist/identity/ and comments are disabled.
I just checked and with another browser, not logged in, posted a comment. They were enabled.
I am a legit family member of these people and I have permission to post on their behalf.
I don’t have that from them, and thus this would not be legally binding. It’s simply one more AP or AP-associated claim, and AP commonly lies and misrepresents. This person did not explain the Los Angeles IP and did not establish the actual family relationship. Further, as well be seen, the person has no skill at resolving disputes, but inflames them. That’s not uncommon, so that in itself would not be proof of being one of the twins. If the Smiths actually are concerned, I recommend they have someone with skill contact me. A lawyer is one option. What this person does is repeat the Smith claims that establish his defamation.
On your blog post you have mentioned the brothers family members including their mother and father. You may have ‘redacted’ the names at the top but at the bottom of the article and elsewhere you mention their parents names and their other brother, it is still there. You also link to the address on an external link. First question why are you doing this in the first place? Are people creating blogs about your family and hosting your real life address? No. So why are you doing it to others?
These are not, by the way, “blog posts.” They are “pages,” which exist as hypertext, organized as subpages under topics, whereas blog posts are organized by date and are featured on the main blog page. The difference is that pages are for the organization of knowledge, whereas posts are immediately topical and chatty. I have deliberately not, so far and for the most part, emphasized these research pages by blogging about them. Some of them may be mentioned in blog posts, as I assess that there is wider interest or potential interest.
I have also redacted the names mentioned, and the addresses as well, but will leave that location in the google IP map as the home or former home of Anglo Pyramidologist (i.e,. of the twins). (Right now, the map will show the actual address, but I will replace that with coordinates and they can be approximate enough to accomplish the purpose but not close enough to find the actual house. I am not actually sure that the address itself is enough for that.). It is clear from these mails that the address was correct. And that is why I pointed out that private email would have been far more appropriate if this is sincere. My tentative conclusion: it is not sincere. This is one of the twins, probably Oliver.
I do not, then, have probative evidence that the family actually knows what Oliver and Darryl have been doing. It has been suggested to me that I actually contact the parents, but I am avoiding that for obvious reasons. That would look far more like harassment than what I have done (but the ones suggesting it were actually thinking of the family welfare).
The information needs to be removed, you have no valid reason to be doing this, it is harassment to intimate these people. The parents and older brother are all innocent and nothing to do with editing wikis. One of the brothers D Smith is no longer there.
I think he means “intimidate.” Intimidate what people? So Darryl has moved out. Oliver still lives there. I suspected that already. “No valid reason” simply disregards what Oliver and Darryl have done, causing massive damage to many people. Including me, by the way, but I voluntarily took the risk. Some of those people did not. Nothing on the page claimed that the parents and older brother had done anything improper, and I think it was explicit. The names have been replaced with “[redacted],” so the information is basically the same (they are identified by “mother” and “brother.”
In the same blog post as hosting this address you also mention the topic of ‘pedophilia’. You may have done this on purpose or it may have been unintentional.
I can’t imagine mentioning pedophilia unintentionally. “Pedophilia” was mentioned by Oliver Smith, so he is responsible for the connection.
But there is no connection between the family residence and ‘pedophilia’.
Sure there is. Someone living there accused others of being pedophiles or pedophile apologists.
You are tying to influence Google traffic by false connections. If someone was doing the same to you, i.e. publishing your families home address or your own one with the topic of ‘pedophilia’, I am sure you would want it removed.
The word “pedophilia” occurs on my blog, and I have written about the topic on various occasions, and Oliver Smith has accused me of “defending pedophiles” or “pedophile apologists” — all untrue. I would not be arguing that the mention of the word pedophile on a page with my name is therefore needing removal. I created a resource on Wikiversity on “Sexual politics,” that refers to a scientific study related to pedophilia. The problem is? Nobody is going to accuse the Smiths of pedophilia, or the family, because of what is hosted here. What is exposed is that Oliver Smith accused people of being pedophiles or pedophile apologists, and then also attacked others because they associate with such a person, when the evidence actually shows none of this. If the Smiths want no association with pedophilia, they should stop allowing one of them to accuse people of it.
I am not sure why a blog on cold fusion research has now stooped to this. You need to some self-reflection. It needs to stop. You may have lived a fantastic life and now you are retired and in your 70s, but remember people are younger than you and still have careers. What you are doing has a potential to ruin peoples careers.
What is on this blog is between me and my organization and its supporters. I am not charging for my services to the organization, and so one compensation is that I can write about what I think is of importance. Academic freedom is an important issue for cold fusion, and Oliver and Darryl Smith have attacked academic freedom, in a big way, causing significant damage. Part of that was a specific attack on cold fusion.
What the “people” are doing have that potential to cause harm, as those attacked respond to it and others intervene for justice.
Oliver Smith wrote me and I advised him that he could recover from all this if he (1) stopped (2) apologized and acted to clear up the messes he created.
Instead, he dove in with more intensity, creating an attack blog going after Emil Kirkegaard — and immediately archiving it so that when it was taken down, as it was rather quickly, it would still be readable. However, I just searched for Oliver D. Smith and “paedophie,” his spelling, and the page mentioned here doesn’t show in ready results. Rather, the top hit is an Encyclopedia Dramatica article that actually says he is not a pedophile.
I would appreciate it if you would remove the information. It comes up on a Google search and is just a way to damage peoples careers or lives. If you want to blog on people you have the right to do that, but posting peoples addresses as a way to intimidate them is not acceptable. You are putting people’s lives at risk. There is absolutely no reason at all to be linking to anyone’s address. None.
I have removed the address, not because there was “no reason” but because it was not necessary. That information is, however, Cat Out of Bag. Trying to get it removed by threatening and harassing people will fail. Unclean hands.
In regard to Kirkegaard I can assure you Smith never contacted the newspapers about him, your evidence is a Rationalwiki ‘post’ that was a joke to feed you false information.
Liar. This person is saying what he could not know, unless he is Oliver Smith, as if he knows it. That is lying. He is not telling us what he knows, just denying my interpretations. This is very much like … Oliver D. Smith. The “joke” was plausible and was consistent with what Smith had written to me. As well, the core of the “newspaper” story is that the media followed closely Smiths’ articles on RationalWiki. The comment on RW that this person is referring to is here and is by SkepticDave who is, from contributions, very clearly Oliver D. Smith (probably not Darryl, but it is possible).
And now this user, WTF, he used the name “David”, proceeds to make Oliver’s claims as his own. This is not a family member seeking to resolve a problem, it’s Oliver himself, once again.
This individual Emil had previously been exposed on Danish anti-fascist blogs years ago.
If it is on a blog with politics I’m pretending to like, it must be true, right?
Yes he was a former neo-Nazi, now he wants to be a ‘race realist’ and hide those former days to seek better public acceptance.
I really have no idea. “Race realism” is not necessary racism, it is more racialism, which is connected with hereditarianism, the idea that genetic inheritance is important to human behavior. The scientific issue is actually one of degree, not of basic fact. To what extent are “races” a biological reality, or are they cultural creations?
I’m generally with the mainstream on this, but that someone is not does not make them “racist” or “fascist.” If someone is a “former neo-Nazi,” and if we think that being a neo-Nazi is a bad thing, we should be congratulating them and letting them move on, rather than continuing to call them by the name of their former associations. Oliver D. Smith dredges the old material that can be found about a person and reports even shallow appearances from it as present reality.
The London Student newspaper investigation was the one that exposed Emil as a racist in 2018, it has nothing to do with Smith.
Total bullshit. That newspaper article was essentially copied from the RationalWiki article without careful investigation, and Oliver Smith has acknowledged writing that article, and not just as SkepticDave, he has acknowledged it as Oliver.
There is an old photograph of Emil doing a Nazi salute with a friend. Emil on his own blog
Liar or radically incautious. There is a photo of Emil where someone else has their arm extended in a salute, it is not at all clear what was happening, but lots of young people make jokes about Nazis. That David repeats all this shows how he’s Oliver. None of this is relevant to anything of major significance. It’s not evidence that Kirkegaard “is a neo-Nazi” or “fascist,” and then we see more dirt being alleged.
also has a blog post defending animated child porn
He did, long ago, again, and the position he expressed was the position of the U.S. Supreme Court; it was a matter under discussion at the time. Basically, Oliver looks for mud to toss. Highly misleading. I’m not going to explain the issue, but the real point is that Oliver’s agenda is clearly revealed: to defame. And David is here supporting that. If I believed that David was real, not lying, I’d think the whole family deserved to be exposed. But I don’t believe that.
and he is associated with the Mankind Quarterly, a racist publication.
Possibly racialist, but I’ve read some of the papers and it certainly does not appear “racist.” And what does this have to do with claims of pedophilia or “pedophilia apology.” (Smith has claimed both.)
You can draw your own conclusions.
I have, on study.
I believe that Emil in the past was a neo-Nazi, but he is ashamed of his former past. He now claims to be a ‘race realist’. He is not really fooling anyone.
Again, this is Oliver Smith, mind-reading Kirkegaard, and defaming him.
If you check his twitter all his friends are Neo-nazis.
I’m not about to do this level of obsessive research. Has David done it? Only Oliver Smith or his brother would invest the effort to discover guilt-by-association. I’ve now had direct correspondence with Kirkegaard. I think he is a racialist and hereditarian on intelligence. I disagree with those stands. But it seems possible to have a coherent discussion with him, which is consistent with his academic bent and inclination. Smith is crazy and routinely lies. I have not seen any lies from Kirkegaard. He wrote some foolish things, and I told him. He’s young. I don’t think he is a “neo-Nazi.” He might be a nationalist or anti-immigration or might have other stands I wouldn’t like, but it appears possible to have a coherent discussion where he will honestly say what he thinks or believes.
And he retweets the neo-Nazi Mark Collett. Admitting to being a Nazi is reputation suicide, so nobody sane will admit to being one. But Emil is definitely far-right. Why you want to side with this man I cannot understand. It seems you will automatically side with anyone who hates Smith, even crude racists.
You, Oliver or David, are an idiot, imagining that other people are as stupid-reactive as you. I have not “sided” with Kirkegaard, I looked at the accusations and investigated them, and found that he was being libelled. I wrote that were I a lawyer, I’d even defend a pedophile. That is now quoted on my RationalWiki article, because it’s obvious that the Smith brothers think this is outrageous. I also wrote that I was an officer in an ACLU chapter at one time, and the ACLU literally defends the civil rights of Nazis and other people with very unpopular opinions. People in modern legal systems have the right to defense, and an attack on the civil liberties of anyone is an attack on mine.
My next question would be though why you make a history of being a busy-body (nosing at other peoples online activities).
The Kirkegaard battle with Smith has nothing to do with you, nothing. You seem to get entertainment out of other peoples affairs. Just stay out of it, it does not involve you.
You are lying or it does not involve you, either. I’ll pick the former, liar.
In regard to the blogspot you talk about, it was deleted by Smith, not taken down by breaking policies.
I cannot verify that. It would have been deleted, it was obvious, so this is damage control by Oliver, claiming he took it down. Maybe he did.
Smith does not know how to properly operate a BlogSpot and I created it for him.
OMG. David has just admitted creating a blog that was, by name and design, defamation.
Smith actually wants this whole drama dropped and to move on with his life, but Kirkegaard will not allow it.
It does not matter what Kirkegaard will allow. There is a simple and straightforward way to accomplish this alleged goal. Tell the truth, the whole truth. Admit what one has done and if it was improper or offensive, apologize for any offense. (Offense is in the eyes of the offended, by the way.) Anglo Pyramidologist attacked me for documenting what he did on Wikiversity, — lying about what I was actually doing, by the way — and threatened me with retaliation, which he attempted with the RationalWiki article. (this may have been Darryl, but Smith becomes responsible for allowing it and for cooperating with it, just as, should David happen to be real, he is, likewise.)
Emil on his twitter posts about Smith almost everyday. Smith has no blogs, websites or anything on anyone. He has edited some wikis that is it. He does not host things on people like yourself
Smith has created a number of blogs, apparently, impersonating others. Blogs are easy to create, the idea that extensive technical knowledge is necessary is BS. I was documenting the WMF activities on the meta wiki, because it was cross-wiki disruption and I was documenting RationalWiki activities on RationalWiki. Both of those stopped because it became dangerous because of AP complaints. So Smith essentially forced me to use this blog. I don’t mind. We are not short of space.
I offered to help Smith, if he really wanted to clear this up. His response was to insult me and ramp it up. He’s just trying to use various approaches. Again, if “David” is real, I’d suggest using an attorney to contact me. An attorney would know far better than to do what David is doing. (In England, this would be called a “solicitor.”)
Bottom line of this whole affair is the problem that you do not know the whole story.
Nobody does. Ever. About anything.
In regard to Smith, you are probably not aware that he has been defamed in the past on both Encyclopedia Dramatica and the Farms as a ‘homosexual’ ‘pedophile’ or ‘rapist’ and ‘nazi’.
So it is David who is ignorant. I came into this with a question as to who was behind the “Michaelskater” socks who had done so much damage on Wikiversity and then who went completely bananas when I documented them. I found connections with AngloPyramidologist and, of course googled it. The more I was attacked the more curious I became. I had been pointed to “mikemikev.” That turned out to have been by one of the socks. Who would both falsely accuse mikemikev and attack [redacted]? Anglo Pyramidologist! And Google led to Oliver D. Smith, but I did not name that name for a long time, since I only had these accusations from unreliable sources. Rome Viharo had taken it up and he is more reliable, but again, I didn’t know if he was merely jumping to conclusions. He won’t lie, but he could make mistakes.
Eventually I came to confirm the identity and found supporting evidence, and Oliver Smith himself effectively verified this (he attempted to justify and minimize, not actually to deny, as David here is confirming the intention to libel while justifying it.
He is none of these things and takes great offense to being labelled one. The reason these trolls called him these things was reverse psychology, to annoy him and it worked. I have spent a heck of lot of time with him trying to clear his name as has the other brother.
I’m not responsible for the trolls on Encyclopedia Dramatica. If Oliver is offended at being called a pedophile, perhaps he might understand that others might also take offense! And might even retaliate!
The ED article removed this smear, but on Kiwi Farms it remained for over a year until it was finally deleted but archived copies remain. Smith is not a pedophile or a rapist, or anything of that nature.
I have seen no credible accusations of it. He is an internet troll who has called a person a “pedophile” with no evidence, and an advocate of child rape when the comments quoted were not advocacy, at all, not if one reads them in their entirety. So Smith defames people, and more than that. He retaliates and attempts to cause harm to anyone who has opposed his agenda of damage through impersonation and lies.
At the time he was inquiring for a new job, it is likely he did not get this job because internet harassers on those websites were creating images of him with ‘pedophile’ above his head.
That is bullshit. I have seen nothing that would credibly create that. But claims that Smith does what he actually does — and continues to do — could well have that effect. Again, the way out is clear, but he’d have to start telling the truth. Encyclopedia Dramatica is not designed to believable. RationalWiki is, and I have seen people jumping to conclusions about others from what is hosted there, that Oliver (or Darryl) created. RationalWiki has more pretense of being verifiable from sources. It has higher ranking in searches, generally. And Oliver Smith was protected there. The article “Oliver D. Smith” was never created, but was salted. Why? That was pre-emptive protection. The Smiths have also been protected elsewhere. Why? I find the question of interest. Whose purposes are served by these attack dogs?
These activities are no doubt illegal and have ruined Smith’s mental health.
Oh, that’s funny.
We have had law enforcement following them. In reply to your comment, did he send an email to someone’s employer to report this abuse. He never actually sent the email, he just said he did.
Again, hilarious. David, if you really are from the family, you will need to become much better informed and, as well, to recognize that Oliver and Darryl are responsible for what they say.
The man who was actually behind this was another man with the surname ‘smith’ (hint, first name S.A.M). He still has a Farms thread and is a notorious cyber-criminal. I will not mention his full name, but you should be easily able to find it online and the history of all this.
Oh, I think that I know who is being mentioned. Worked with Smith for a time and they had a falling out, so now a Smith — does it matter which one? — is trying to pin the Bad Stuff on him. But I’m not attempting to keep all the denizens of cyberspace straight.
O. Smith had about 100 images on Google with a ‘pedophile’ smear written above his head. It is a serious smear which would could cause someone to commit suicide. You talk about defamation, but who has really been defamed?
First of all, I might suggest that “David” become familiar with defamation law. What is not believable is not necessarily defamation. What is obvious satire and trolling may not be defamation.
I just googled “Oliver Smith pedophile” and looked at the images. There is one image as described and it links to https://archive.is/8j1V8 which is a page on Rome Viharo (which compares him to Oliver Smith). One commentor posted that photo of Smith with PEDOPHILE written on it. This has no credibility and would be very unlikely to cause damage. What will cause damage is the creation of libelous articles on RationalWiki, and other major disruption.
An internet search for your name Lomax only brings up one supposed ‘negative’ article about you on Rationalwiki that logs your wiki blocks or forum bans.
That is a gross understatement.
You have not been defamed anywhere on the internet.
Untrue. This is ridiculous.
Nobody is stalking your family members (that you seem to be doing to others), nobody is hosting blogs about you.
Damn! I need to try harder! (And I have not stalked “family members.” I simply confirmed the Smith geolocation. I have not found nor have I attempted to find personal information about anyone other than Oliver and Darryl Smith, who originally confirmed each other as socks blocked on Wikipedia as Anglo Pyramidologist, and they have created many socks to harass me and prevent me from neutrally documenting what they did. What they did, in itself, would obviously appear reprehensible to many, but I was just showing, originally, a list of socks that had been identified. In that documentation, I occasionally mentioned other people, without any claim that they had done anything wrong, and I was attacked for “attacking them.” Oliver Smith attempts to get people fighting with each other, that is one of the obvious behaviors.
Nobody is outing your IP addresses or creating maps like you spend your time doing. As said before, I think some self-reflection is in order here.
I’m not creating massive numbers of socks where IP information can help identify them — and can also clear some from accusations. For example, some of the IP information I compiled geolocated to Seoul, Korea. That was almost certainly mikemikev.
Yes, I created the IP map to make it easy to convey this information. It’s a part of the larger picture. And I will be refactoring all this data I have compiled here to make it more accessible and easier to understand.
Oliver Smith is advised to realize that denial and counterattack can never recover the possibility of a decent reputation. His attacks on Kirkegaard may have sealed this, but there were others before. His attacks on me — that “David” denies exist — may result in some reforms, or not. I don’t know the outcomes in advance, I only know that patient study of reality pays off.
I have your phone number and all your details which are public. I could choose to phone you or one of your daughters but I thought no. I do not want to cross the realm of real life. I respect your privacy, so please respect the privacy of mine and remove the details about them from public view.
I don’t know who you are, you have not really told me. Ah, David, other than pointing out that your IP was Los Angeles, I have not revealed your “personal information.” I think you forgot you were pretending to be not-Oliver and not-Darryl. The cool thing about phone calls is caller ID.
If Oliver or Darryl go after my children, well, they used to be called an “urban army” and they protected each other, and anyone who molested them was in big, big trouble. Such might hope that the police would be called instead of direct action taken. I’m an old man, but I have children with children and another one, I just found, on the way.
It is cowardly to start making this whole thing personal, and publicly posting peoples private information that was indeed behind a paywall on 192.
Again, if it was on 192, it was public information. I don’t see why that is diffcult to understand. “David,” here, has saved me what it would cost to buy the information.
You talk about the smiths getting an attorney and filing a claim against you and then you doing a counter claim.
No, that is not what I said. I suggested an attorney for negotiation (as I clarify above, it would be a “solicitor”, who negotiates, because “David” is obviously incompetent at that, instead arguing as Oliver would. Filing a lawsuit would be nuts, because what I’m doing is not a tort. Really bad idea, but I can represent myself, I’m reasonably competent at it. There are others considering legal action against Oliver, and Kirkegaard seems to have quite a decent case, and possibly Rome Viharo as well. And others.
(When claims are made that are plausible enough to be taken up and repeated by mainstream media, a clear boundary has been crossed.)
None of us really want it to get to that level. You seem to feed off drama, we are the opposite. We want to live our lives. Not have some disgruntled guy blogging about us everyday.
Now I have spoken to Smith and he wants all this drama stopped. Are you willing to move on with your life and stop all of this? Regards.
I’m not seeing anything offered to make up for all the damage that has been done. I am not “blogging about” them “every day.” However, Smith keeps creating new attacks — on me on my RW article — and new attacks on others. If he wants “all this drama stopped,” why, then, is he feeding it so intensely?
Why are you doxxing peoples addresses on your website? This is harassment.
The IP address for “Sarah” is a TOR exit node. The email address is on yahoo, useless to publish, it is unlikely to be active (WordPress does not confirm these addresses). “Sarah” is a troll, — nobody else would use TOR for a comment like this — and is repeating an Oliver Smith story. There were, as part of an investigation into the Identity of Anglo Pyramjidologist, some addresses. Those were redacted yesterday, gone well before “Sarah” wrote. It is not harassment, per se, to republish the public real-life information of a blatant promoter of libel and widespread internet disruption, who has been threatening me, in fact, with harassment — and actually haraassing, in many ways, causing damage (i.e., otherwise unnecessary work). Instead of being “butt-hurt,” the term used on RationalWiki and other places like ED and lolcowwiki or kiwi farms, when someone describes abuse, I investigate and publish what I find, and learn from it. Highly educational, including the restoration work, I needed to relearn a programming language to handle enormous XML files. That will now be useful in many ways. When life gives lemons, don’t just make lemonade, make lemon chicken and lemon chiffon pie. Yay for lemons!
“Butt-hurt” is adolescent-culture condemnation of an appearance of weakness. Strong men don’t complain. But the flip side of that is the common dictum, “Don’t get mad, get even.” The more mature expression of that is to actually address social problems with action, not just complaint or narrow retaliation. When one takes such, there will always be opposition. In my training, “If they are not shooting at you, you are not doing anything worth wasting bullets on.” Exemplars in the training are often people who were assassinated. It’s easy to think of a list who made a difference in the world, benefiting many, who were shot.
Because the address is not needed any more on this site for any legitimate purpose (any attorney for a client suing Smith can find it easily, searching on the name of the guilty person, and he’s admitted various actions that amount to libel and defamation and harassment), I voluntarily removed it the day before this comment, and, this morning, as well, a link to an image of it, and will be removing reference to the address elsewhere, but I will be keeping rough geolocation for use with identifying Smith IP. Smith has just created, it appears, a threat to the address, see below. In other words, he is trying to prove that there is an actual danger, by creating a threat himself. Or … it is trolling by an enemy. The threat is not at all believable.
posted to To live outside the law you must be honest, 2018/02/09 at 8:28 am (UT-7)
Can I call you and we can discuss your cyber-bullying and harassment of my client? There are legal implications of your abuse.
[link to directory listing for my real name]
Bill Cooper (British attorney)
Fun. The phone number is not actually a land line. It is in the directory listing,though. Smith was able to find this by searching on my real name, which is not secret. My identity is not secret, it has long been quite public. I’m not hiding. I did not need proof that Smith would know it (and he has claimed this before).
Now, Bill Cooper. British attorney? No. Radically unskillful if he is. An attorney leading with a pure threat might possibly be just writing a letter for a friend, not caring about actual negotiation. Letters from actual attorneys less hostile and aggressive than this have been met by citing a famous British case in which an alleged media offender for libel wrote something like this: “We have carefully considered your request, and our answer is: Fuck off!” I’ve referred to this before…..
This is actually showing that Smith and make “good” on this threat to publish my “private information,” which obviously is not-so-private. And I knew that. If you are going to threaten someone, make sure that they are vulnerable to it! Threats are a very poor way to gain cooperation, they only work with someone with no critical interest in continuing, and when the “harm” is extensive. Smith has actually threatened my children, but they are quite capable of defending themselves, and will.
(Smith is “disgusted” that I have seven children (two adopted), but that actually could be seen as my “winning the game,” a game which he has lost without even trying, if he continues with what he has claimed about himself, the survival game, he is “anti-natalist,” and such believe that procreation is immoral (and not merely because of overpopulation, the position is that it is intrinsically immoral, because it creates the possibility of suffering, and to cause suffering, it is believed, is immoral. This is definitely connected with Smith’s internet activity, his obsessions. I’m not worried about his error, because it breeds itself out naturally.
I also have six grandchildren, with another just revealed. Yay!
Yes, life can turn about at any time: Dylan, The Times They Are A-Changin’
Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won’t come again
And don’t speak too soon
For the wheel’s still in spin
And there’s no tellin’ who that it’s namin’
For the loser now will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin’
Nobel Prize. He deserved it, fully. My children are spread around the map, but, hay, maybe the sun goes supernova, or there is a nuclear war and nearly everyone dies. And in the end, everyone dies, in my training: “Survival is a game you are going to lose.” They mean, eventually — and personally. It’s intrinsic to existence: what has a beginning has an end. That, I will declare, is reality. However, meanwhile, we have an opportunity ….
What was missing from “Mr. Cooper’s” mail was any evidence that he is an actual attorney. The IP is a TOR Node, or a proxy server, the same provider as Sarah. The email address is on gmail. An attorney would definitely not use such to contact me. He would give me his real contact information, office address for mail, actual telephone number, email, etc. Attorneys don’t hide. Smith does.
Bill Cooper (again)
I have decided to convert your side. I will not phone you. I believe we should team up against Smith I have sent him harassing phone-calls, do you approve? I am doing good work for you. I am an expert sniper. I have a team of snipers at Aldenham Road. With your permission I will kill Smith.
Bill Cooper (Ex British Army sniper)
Permission denied. Smith has done nothing worthy of a death penalty, and individuals making decisions like that, outside of social consensus and sovereignty, is against millenia of human culture. Gee, no wonder he anonymizes! I have also not approved and do not approve of “harassing phone calls.” This would not be “good work.”
(If someone wants to do “good work,” I have suggestions, and they are nothing like this. Contact me, comments can be used on any topic here at this time, requesting that they not be published. However, comments that hide identity — like this one — will be rejected or might even be published. I need people willing to be honest and open; specific exceptions will be considered. Don’t hide from me and I will respect your privacy — unless you defame and libel others, so be careful! I don’t need agreement, but honesty and willingness to help with reporting the truth.)
This, however, is how Smith views me and what I have done, as a personal vendetta, fueled by hatred. That is what he does, not what I do.
Is this Smith? I consider it likely. I do keep in mind that it could be an enemy, trolling. Hence I will look more carefully at the evidence I have on this (I may have more evidence, but it is not immediately obvious.) What all this shows clearly is that we are dealing with a serious loose cannon…. strictly speaking, more than one of them.
David Smith yet again
In regard to the “Identity” page which appears to be locked because of spam:
Please note that Abd has taken this dox of a personal home address from a notorious neo-Nazi Mikemikev who has a personal vendetta against Smith for being an ‘anti-fascist’. Mikemikev has been spamming this address over the web (illegally) in the past, which he has stopped doing now because the police and his own family were informed about his activities.
The source of verifiable information is legally irrelevant. A factional political memo from Congress regarding the investigation of a person involved with Donald Trump’s campaign promoted the idea that funding for an investigator having come (indirectly) from the Clinton campaign, if not revealed to the FISA court that authorizes surveillance, was legally important. Police and similar agencies often receive even anonymous tips, and that a tipster has some personal agenda is actually irrelevant. Much information comes from such people,and police know that it can be highly biased, even lies. But lying to the police is a crime itself. I did not depend on Mikemikev’s information, it was merely a lead, and I needed to confirm it before reporting it. I confirmed it adequately and reported it. I did give the source, but that is now redacted. Smith has been claiming that there is a “paranoid Smith brothers conspiracy theory.” He’s lying. His name is all over the internet, and I needed to confirm it, and did. And my publication brought the Real Oliver D. Smith out in the open, it flushed him.
For all I know, mikemikev eats Jewish babies for breakfast, Muslim children for lunch, and anyone who documents him for dinner and snacks. It’s totally irrelevant. I have had no communication, as far as I know from mikemikev. I do know that he has been blamed for some Smith activities, and I suspect that he may have trolled similarly. Arguing against that is certain normally-private evidence. He can’t fake revealed IP from Smith’s location. He can’t fake Smith’s known email addresses. (I do know how to recognize spoofed email). All this claim about mikemikev is totally irrelevant.
He published evidence that I confirmed. I factor for possible motives when considering evidence. Any journalist would — but the British journalists who republished Smith’s claims didn’t. It’s hard to find good help.
Smith was a former fascist who later became a strong anti-racist and mikemikev considered him a ‘traitor’ and ‘anti-white’. Why is Abd now citing racists and white supremacists as a ‘valid’ source of information about people on a blog dedicated to cold fusion?
But I didn’t do that, not even before redaction. The blog is indeed dedicated to cold fusion, but who provides the labor? And my compensation for that is freedom of expression. Smith has never recognized that I have not used the full megaphone of a blog for AngloPyramidologist issues. The relevant pages are that, i.e. “pages,” and are not featured on the home page — and here, comments are being copied to a page, not a post. Comments also are featured on the home page. Posts are organized by date, pages by subject and category and by subpage structure. Smith has obviously been searching carefully for anything he can use on this blog, archiving anything he thinks useful for accusations — even if those pages contain alleged privacy violations, revealing that his agenda is defamation, not protection of privacy. He’s quite transparent to anyone who studies his history.
Here, we get evidence for a story that I had largely developed: Smith’s agenda comes from his history as a fascist. His attacks on [redacted] would come from that. [redacted], if I’m correct, has also claimed to be a former fascist. So conflicts stemming from all that are being maintained outside of that context, “David” is confirming all that. [redacted] was attacked, not because of his “pseudoscientific beliefs,” but because this was a way of retaliating against him. Vendetta, and quite obviously. What he accuses others of.
I consider this story likely to have an element of truth, but I keep in mind that AP socks commonly lie. Indeed, above, David claims that Oliver lied about having emailed Moon’s mother’s employer. So what we have — by apparent admission — is a family that lies. Or just one or two people from a family, i.e., Oliver and Darryl Smith. From lies one can derive possible fact to be investigated. The same is true for mikemikev. I simply don’t know enough about him to assess him more precisely. He has, as far as I know, never made any attempt to contact me with his real identity. That is not the case with many other AP targets. I have had direct communication with Rome Viharo, [redacted], Emil Kirkegaard, Michael D. Suarez (without knowing for sure that this is his real name, but this is over a very long period of time, long before any hint of Anglo Pyramidologist — and not always in agreement, either.(
Smith has claimed that [redacted] is “my friend.” That’s quite a strong word compared to the reality: I created the parapsychology resource on Wikiversity, not out of any “belief” in parapsychology or what parapsychology studies, the paranormal, but simply to allow study and “learning by doing,” what Wikiversity is for. [redacted] started to participate, and I restrained him and moved him into creating his own, personally attributed, study of sources. And that was that. I did this kind of work with other Wikiversity users. It wasn’t personal.
There is no way to confirm if the Smiths live at the address, they could be another Smith.
Horseshit. David Smith knows that this is the address, so he is raising a theoretical possibility as a form of deception. I’m not a judge or jury and I am not claiming proof of criminal action. I’m looking at the preponderance of evidence, and David Smith has fundamentally confirmed that this is the address. Why make such a fuss about a fake address? When Smith attacked the original Anglo Pyramidologist studies, claiming that they were lies or fantasies — when there were simple reports of known facts, almost entirely — I knew I was onto something. Why attack them if they were fake? At that point, the only mention of Smith was accidental, in a URL, and that was quickly redacted and revision-deleted, effectively. Yet Smith kept claiming that he was being “outed.” Methinks the lady doth protest too much! Vituzzu wrote, on meta, that the sock master “wasn’t too bright.” Smith did exactly what was needed to fuel my interest investigation. Attack it. Many times I invited him to correct actual errors. He never did, except one account made a claim … but it was as an Smith-meme attack and essentially proved to me that an account I had merely listed as possibly involved, but without much evidence was actually Smith. (That was MrRowser, who had a handful of edits to Wikiversity, not problematic in themselves, simply taking a skeptical position roughly like Smith might have — but so might have others.)
The information may be correct, but it might be wrong, it may be another Smith or the Smith in question may have moved address. I am not going to confirm or deny it (I am a family relative), but this information was behind a paywall originally.
David has already done quite enough to remove remaining doubt about the address, that is, if I assume that David is telling the truth, that he is actually a family member. This time Smith IP points to a web host in Arizona, not Los Angeles as before. This is extremely unlikely to be anyone but Oliver Smith or another troll knowing how to use a web host. (These do not show up on whatismyipaddress as open proxies, but any web host can be abused that way, and web hosts can be very cheap, almost pocket change. One of the IPs, as well, that showed up on the ip site as a possible TOR node was, in fact, a web host, as I found when I accidentally went to the IP as if it were a URL. By the way, if I cared about my own IP being revealed, I would certainly not mention this! I don’t care. I’m not socking anywhere, and my identity is open, very much unlike the history of Oliver and Darryl Smith.
Full disclosure: I do have various socks (additional accounts), created over the years for various purposes, most open and known, a few not.
To be clear, the Smith address that was here was a former address, not claimed to be current. The ages give indicate it was at least a year old or so, and it might have been obsolete in the directory, the date of that information is not known to me. We have IP address information for the Smith home, however, from 2011, on Wikipedia (and this all fits together). Further, David has revealed that Darryl is no longer living there, but that Oliver is.
You have no reason to be hosting this material. It is potentially dangerous and could put peoples lives or careers at risk. Like I said you may have the wrong address.
A wrong address is not going to harm anyone. What, does David think that an air strike will be ordered? We just had a threat that gave the street address. It was almost certainly Smith, attempting to develop a story of probable harm. It was not, in any case, believable.
And I’m not hosting the address. There is one remnant that will take some time to get to. It’s obscure, it would not be found by Google search, I think.
Someone who is willing to take a major risk to actually harass Smith or the Smith family or whoever is at that house on that road (it is not a street address, it appears to be a rural address, i.e., the name of the family and the road name is how mail is delivered), would surely be willing to pay a small fee to obtain up-to-date directory information. A sane Smith family would not have sent “David Smith” with his crazy and incendiary continuation of libel.
Trust me, I had reasons. The purpose, however, was fulfilled, especially when Smith responded as he did. Since my goal is not to harass the family — nor even Smith himself, beyond what revealing the truth behind a wall of damaging lies will do — I didn’t need to keep the address up.
Lastly, Mikemikev’s activities have law enforcement following them. This individual has sent Smith and others death threats over the years.
This is utterly irrelevant and, as well, untrustworthy, like all information from the “Smith family,” so far. I’m not saying that it’s wrong, any particular allegation might be true.
Why is a blog on cold fusion now doxing people? What does any of this have to do with cold fusion research?
The answer is simple: Wikiversityi had hosted many pages on cold fusion, the better part of 200. These were overall neutral, but Wikiversity allows the expression of opinion, if framed as such. These resources were a learning project (and it certainly educated me on the topic! — but, as well, it had educated others, by creating lists of sources and other educational materials. The list of sources was completely neutral, including the very few “negative’ mainstream journal papers from 2005 and later.) Egged on by Smith socks, joined by long-term anti-cold fusion activist editors from Wikipedia (two of them, one an administrator who was sanctioned by the Arbitration Committee, based on evidence I provided that they confirmed, and who never forgave me over this, and the other having previously been banned on all fringe science topics, even site-banned, and who was unbanned by the “community,” overturning an ArbComm ban, showing the power of that faction), a bureaucrat made an unprecedented decisions to delete all of it, and in doing that, he lied about the history — it had not been at all disruptive — probably simply believing what Smith had fed him privately.
So, first of all, Wikiversity was a place where any student could study cold fusion, and anyone with expertise could, as well, share it. Smith attacked that. And he also attacked cold fusion and the host of this blog, Infusion Institute, as “pseudoscientific,” which is an outright lie. (That is in my RationalWiki article that he created.) The function of III is to facilitate basic scientific research, as recommended by both United States Departement of Energy Reviews, to be done with increased precision over prior efforts, by a very reputable university, managed by a notable physicist (though the field is actually chemistry in origin) and published through normal mainstream journal or journals.
My original involvement was in protecting Wikiversity and [redacted], non-disruptive there and using Wikiversity properly, as far as he’d know, he violated no warnings, continued no alleged misbehavior, if it was even misbehavior, after it was criticized, so the original issue was academic freedom, already important. And the, in his campaign to attack the studies occasioned by that, he attacked cold fusion very directly.
There is no mystery here, my reasons for doing this work are transparent. Denial that there is a reason is totally useless. Addressing the reason, working to find a way to protect critical interests, would be a way forward, but this was already offered to Oliver Smith, and he rejected it. David is not doing anything different, and repeats Oliver’s libelous and radically uncivil claims. So I think he is, simply, Oliver Smith.
Minor possibilities: Darryl or an impersonator. That is more likely for the “lawyer” and “sniper” who posted today with a manifest and crazy threat.
Why have you made this personal? No Smith has ever harassed you, but you do it to them?
David, suppose you don’t know about the harassment, which has been heavily documented. You state it as a fact that it didn’t happen, which is quite unlikely to impress me. As a result of Smith’s socking on Wikipedia and Wikiversity, and his threatened, and probably realized, private complaints, I have needed to undertake some weeks of work to recover years of work that had seemed safe.
Now, I knew it was not entirely safe, but I assumed there would be time if it was threatened, and that was so for the cold fusion work itself …. but it had been effectively vandalized, which is still not cleaned up, I’m learning to use AutomaticWikiBrowser, but not so easy for many other pages from my user space, on many topics; for that, to recover it from enormous database dumps, it’s taking learning to program in Basic again. Not to worry, this will all be quite useful if I need to do more data analysis, and there are some possibilities I will be paid for that.
I do not see anyone hosting Abd’s address on a blog, so why is he doing it to others?
I wrote that I had removed the address, but he keeps complaining. Why? Probably gecause a claim of doxxing creates sympathy in a certain crowd, particularly the RationalWiki crowd, and, as well, some of those who edit Wikipedia disruptively.
Perhaps he can answer these questions on this blog post. It would be interesting to see what his readers think. I know Abd pretends to be the good guy all the time, but this is really the definition of cyber harassment.
This is Oliver Smith, not a family member trying to defuse a risk to the family.
I will indeed be informing [redacted] the hoster of the website about this and I have friends in high places who can take a look at this an offer advice. Regards.
Given that what he is claiming isn’t there, what is there to complain about to the host? Smith is persistent and has definitely succeeded in taking down web sites in the past. He might just succeed in damaging RationalWiki with his trolling. Trolls often assert “friends in high places,” and in my experience, nothing happens. It’s a bluff. If, however, there is actually a friend, maybe they will actually intervene and contact me. If they are sane, it would be quite a relief.
To be sure, I was attacked on Wikipedia, years ago, by a highly experienced Wikipedian, sent by a nonprofit that he was supporting. He had a conversation with me, and completely reversed his position, adopting my ideas and promoting them.
Agnostic Steven 2018/02/13 at 9:32 pm
[gmail email address redacted] 220.127.116.11 [TOR exit node]
(Anyone posting on this topic should know that IP address and other normally private information might be disclosed. I also have the email addresses, but am not publishing them because they will likely be useless. As well, someone giving useful information should know that they will not be trusted if they use an open proxy — or possible open proxy. These sometimes can then be correlated with other messages, here or in other locations (and by other site administrators, part of why I publish these). If someone wants to privately give information, I will normally respect a request for privacy, but if I conclude that this was deceptive, I reserve the right to disclose it. Truth is my only weapon, but I intend discretion. Truth alone is not enough reason to disclose what might harm. However, this disclosure should do no harm.)
18.104.22.168 is the person who got your cold fusion material on wikiversity deleted. He was the one who first started the deletion request. You have confused this individual with the smith brothers.
The question immediately comes to mind: how does “Steven” know this to state it with such assurance? No information is provided allowing me to assess this. I’ll cover the extremely thin evidence below. What is totally clear is that the Request for deletion on Wikiversity was pursuing a prior declared AP (“Smith brothers”) agenda, and a series of IPs were used, not just the one. 22.214.171.124 is broadband, Virgin Media, dynamic IP, geolocating to Reading, England. From proximity this would be immediately suspect as AP. From the duck test, this would be AP. However, as I have written about many suspected AP socks, it is always possible it’s someone else pursuing the same agenda. That can happen. It would be rare.
This person may be an associate of the smiths or working with them, but I think it is more likely he is working with JzG . He is a skeptic.
Yes. The IP could be, long-term, many people, but the more recent patterns indicate “skeptic” interests, but again, that could be AP.
Run a google search on his IP, this comes up in a comment https://respectfulinsolence.com/2016/04/20/mike-adams-launches-a-sustained-campaign-of-lies-against-a-friend-of-the-blog/
This was a comment by one “sadmar.”
“Before that revision, the second sentence began; “Once the owner of one of the largest cancer practices in Michigan”, and that’s all that was changed. The edit was made by an unregistered user listed as IP address 126.96.36.199.
I registered, and changed it back, adding the following ‘edit summary’ on the ‘History’ page: “(UNDO: Fata was not in any way a “leader” of the Karmanos Institute. He merely leased space for one of his 7 private clinics in the Institutes building. Apparent attempt to defame Karmanos by false association.”
The reference is to the Wikipedia article on Farid Fata. This was the edit.
I see in the IP contributions history many AP red flags, but also other signals. That Farid Fata edit was not pursuing a skeptical agenda. This related edit would be the same user, at that time. I conclude that more than one user has used that IP. It does seem to be reasonably stable for substantial periods of time. It could be, as an example, internet access in some café. It is close to the Smith residence.
There are other connections with JzG. This isn’t one, even though he (Guy Chapman, openly acknowledged) commented in the original blog post. JzG, in particular, has a blatant long-time grudge against me for pointing out his use-of-tools-while-involved wrt Cold fusion, leading to an ArbComm reprimand, and has occasionally pursued revenge over this for many years, it’s obvious. He took the opportunity.
188.8.131.52 has a vendetta against alternative medicine researchers.
The evidence shown does not establish that; further, feeding me a red herring like this, perhaps hoping that I jump on it, would be an AP device. He then would be able to point to how gullible I am for anything that looks like it confirms my “paranoid conspiracy theory” and his story that this is all about hating “skeptics.”
Roxy the dog
Roxy the dog 2018/02/15 at 6:28 pm
[aol email address redacted] 184.108.40.206 [Tor exit node]
This is very unlikely to be the Wikipedia user, Roxy the dog.
The link provided had no date and would quickly be stale. I have edited the actual link to permanently show what it showed when sent.
Rome Viharo has been socking on Wikipedia on loads of accounts trying to spam his website on the Deepak Chopra article. These are not ‘impersonations’, they are him.
Those accounts resemble Viharo not at all. They are either a Smith brother or they are someone impersonating their impersonations. I’ve seen actual Viharo socks on RationalWiki. They are straightforward, generally. AP has a habit of creating outrageous, in-your-face socks, that are going to be immediately tagged. That’s what he did with [redacted], and Wikipedia editors seem to fall for it. The real [redacted] socks — there were a few — were discreet, not blatantly disruptive.
Rome Viharo also had a Reddit account SUSPENDED for impersonating people. https://www.reddit.com/user//?sort=hot
That shows that the account is suspended, but does not at all show why.
However, Viharo has described what happened, and he is describing exactly what AP does. That is how I was blocked on Wikiversity. There was no improper behavior there, but there were “many complaints.” Not public, private. And an administrator decided to ignore policy and precedent and block. AP socks had threatened to do that.
And then they take that outcome and use it for more defamation, as here.
He likes to blame his ‘impersonations’ onto other people.
Anglo Pyramidologist impersonates, including this comment, almost certainly. Else why the open proxy? When Roxy the dog could email me anonymously using the WMF interface (User:Abd), but confirming it was actually him? One would only need the open proxy in order to conceal that identity.
It is not the Smiths doing this nor Tim Farley or Susan Gerbic, they are all innocent. You are defending Rome Viharo a known internet troll and liar.
I have not accused Farley or Gerbic of impersonation. I have also seen no evidence of Viharo lying, ever. I do not always agree with his conclusions, but what he writes is not intentionally deceptive. It is quite the contrary with Anglo Pyramoidologist socks. So, how would this “Roxy the dog” know what actually happened on Reddit?
I don’t know, not as personal knowledge. What I know is that AP socks impersonated [redacted], on Wikipedia and on RationalWiki, and impersonated others. With transient accounts, it is difficult to be certain unless technical evidence happens to show up, but this Roxy the dog is waving a big red flag, Anglo Pyramidologist. This is how AP writes.
I encountered Rome years ago on the InternationalSkeptics forum, he has been trolling for years.
Roxy the dog (Wikipedia user)
That last claim is irrelevant. However, looking it up, I found Rome Viharo’s commentary on that forum.
Trolls troll. The comments copied to this page are entirely trolling. What does that say about the authors?
One of the sock accounts seen on the Chopra article writes like Viharo, but … AP has taken what others have written and then has posted the text in a disruptive manner. It can fool the unwary. (and apparently did, when he pretended to be me on RationalWiki). This was the source for that Viharo comment. It was blatantly out of place in the article, and Viharo would not have put it there. If he was going to write something like that on Wikipedia, he’d have put it on the talk page where it might actually make some difference.
Not Dave[gmail redacted] 220.127.116.11 2018/03/06 at 1:13 am
I am a Rationalwiki user. You have been socking on proxies. You also said you have 20,000 proxies.
I certainly do not have “20,000” proxies. A person editing by open proxy said that, which would mean that the proxy service being used has that many, so that he can access a new IP in about a minute. Some of the IPs also stated they would not reveal identity. From what they edit, they could be me or someone supporting me or even an imitator, just as many recently created accounts attempting to resemble me have been impersonations. However, here, I’m saying that at least one of the IP editors was me. Maybe more. So have others used proxy servers, including “Not Dave” here, as you can see by following the link. It is a standard method of editing semi-anonymously and that particular proxy server has been used by AP socks before, it’s familiar.
Which proves little or nothing. Anyone can use these servers. Some are free or offer limited service for free., some require a modest payment. Whatismyipaddress.com, used above for identifying the IP of Not Dave, also has links to many proxy servers, and information about using them.
This is obvious to anyone who looks at the history of the Oliver Smith/Darryl Smith socks. Just because someone says they are So-and-So is not actually evidence that they are. Just because someone writes like so-and-so, in some way, does not prove the identity. (Smith impersonation socks often actually quote the person being imitated, and I’ve seen that behavior from what are presumed to be other sock masters. I was imitated before by someone doing that, making comments on a blog. There was quotation of me, followed by something added that was highly offensive, supposedly attacking someone thought to be an enemy. Same behavior as seen with the impersonation socks on RW. Perhaps I will source the original comments, so that readers can see what was changed.
You were also talking in third person pretending to be someone else originally on your proxy IPS, you then gave that up and eventually outed yourself. You impersonate people and pretended you were more than one person. Caught with your pants down!
If an ally posts about me or supporting my work on RationalWiki, expect them to use the third person. If I post there, by IP, expect that I will also use the third person. That is actually, by the way, academic style under some conditions. AP socks have also written about AP socks in this way.
This is classic socking, as well, in a context where “additional supporting comments” can have an impact. However, there is no pretense, since everyone on RationalWiki knows that IP socks can be anyone, and the IP socks do not claim to be independent. At least not so far. Is Not Dave above, claiming to be independent? It’s implied, but not actually stated. Some of the obvious AP socks have made those claims, even though they were easily as obvious — and similarly so — as the alleged Abd IPs. Of course, the authenticated socks don’t resemble this at all. Except for ODS, recently on RW, they deny their identity.
Which is more of a problem: IP editors who are socks, or named accounts which are socks, and recent activity on RationalWiki has demonstrated that someone is creating massive named impersonation socks. They have particular and easily identifiable characteristics, and are clearly impersonations. I have shown how I will edit RationalWiki, both with accounts and “anonymously,” and the behavior of the impersonation socks is radically different. That was pointed out, and, — I haven’t looked today — much of this was hidden. Some in the RationalWiki community are literally suppressing the “open discussion” promised by the RW About page, and me as The real deal, Authentic, Full disclosure, and Open honesty, the two blocked with no edits.
See my Identity verification page, which was cited on RW to establish the identity of some accounts. See this block log by Debunking spiritualism, an obvious obvious Darryl Smith account name, with so many signs — including this block log! — that if this were a bridge, I’d walk across the Chasm of Death on it.
When authenticity, full disclosure, and open honesty are blocked, what is left? This is war, of a kind, a war against deception and defamation and suppression of academic freedom, which have always been of high interest to me, since I was a teenager, which is a very long time ago. In war, certain kinds of deception are normal.
If I wanted to, I have always been able to edit Wikipedia, even after being banned there, and I still could, it’s easy (as AP socks have proven) But I never socked on Wikipedia after a brief set of experiments in 2011, and I never socked on RationalWiki, either, except, when I realized how unstable that community was, I created “safety socks.” (I also created such socks on WMF wikis, this is not actually a violation of policy if they don’t edit disruptively. This used to be known. I didn’t use socks to edit disruptively or engage in other disruption. But that might change. When a community allows itself to become an enemy, it becomes a legitimate target. (Wikipedia has not done that yet, but a faction active there is getting close.)
Sane communities avoid this, crazy ones don’t. (And this does not allow “terrorism,” i.e., attacking the innocent because of the actions of a few. I am not harassing users on RationalWiki, someone else is, using my names and pretending to be me. And lying about it. Of that I’m certain! After all, I know what I’ve done and not done! And I’m a real person, using real names, and responsible for what I write. What can be said about the AP trolls? Now, very recently, and possibly under pressure, Oliver D. Smith has, using an authenticated email address, admitted much of what had been inferred before from available evidence. He is RW user ODS, that is very unlikely to be impersonation. Advising him in one place was Debunking spirituality, who is, from initial interests and behavior, the brother, Darryl Smith. All this is obvious obvious, but what is obvious is prohibited on RationalWiki, a site supposedly dedicated to rationality and skeptical investigation. In fact, investigation is prohibited there, unless it is done by someone pretending to be “one of them,” i.e., a “skeptic.” This affair has demonstrated that in spades. In bucket loaders.
How did that happen? It’s fairly obvious, if anyone looks, but this is a wiki problem. Wiki means “quick” and it takes time to look, and it’s not so much fun as unloading tons of snark on perceived “pseudoscientists” or “conspiracy theorists.” The sock investigations were actually an “anti-conspiracy theory.” A vast array of impersonations and attacks were not from a “skeptical organization” as such, but from two brothers, each long-term disruptive and long blocked on Wikipedia, defacto banned. Simply listing suspected socks on RationalWiki was attacked, both by the socks, but more of concern, by at least one highly privileged user. Or he allowed it to take place. Listing suspected socks on Wikipedia is normal. It is not consider an attack unless accompanied by attacks. And, of course, the AP socks had commonly used sock investigations to target enemies.
This was not the topic of my investigations, though aspects of it end up being mentioned. The topic was the impersonation socking of [redacted], eventually confirmed by steward checkuser. Those socks were actually either a Smith brother, or someone doing an amazingly accurate impersonation — and I have always maintained the impersonation possibility, but … it turned out to be highly unlikely. Nevertheless, this comment from Not Dave could be an impersonation, for a reason I will mention below. On the other hand, it could be Darryl impersonating someone impersonating him. I haven’t seen the level of deception before, this could be the first example.
There is probably only one person who would have the knowledge and inclination to pull that off, and that could be mikemikev. So … I am reaching out to mikemikev, with whom I have had no communication. He’s a real-name person, long defamed by AP socks (mostly Oliver, likely, from interests). His politics are likely very far from mine. But the human community badly needs to unite on honest and authenticity. Instead, people are arrayed against each other reinforced by offensive labels, which perpetuate conflict. If we don’t move beyond this, we could literally all die, and by our own activities.
“Not Dave” is showing what one of the checkuser requesters (not me) called on the meta wiki a “high level of knowledge” that would be characteristic of AP socks, and my current opinion is that this is likely Darryl, but it could still be Oliver. The current massively active sock is Debunking spirituality (contributions) (logs), and this is totally obvious. I have begun documenting this on the page, Anglo Pyramidologist/Darryl L. Smith.
Why are you doxing Rationalwiki users on your blog? This is harassment. I have informed the correct parties.
No example is given of doxxing. I have not doxxed anyone there. Ever, to my knowledge. This is a typical AP lie and that this user repeats it demonstrates that (1) the user is AP, one of the brothers, probably Darryl, or (2) This is an impersonator who wants to attack the Smith brothers, unlikely because of considerations I give below.
What I did on RW was list suspected socks, on a user page, to collect the information and to later present it to the community for review. That was attacked as doxxing, but a list of anonymous accounts isn’t doxing. You want to see doxxing, look at what Debunking spiritualism has created on Talk:Abd ul-Rahman Lomax. He is claiming that anonymous accounts are me. That’s doxxing them. I am now doxxing him, in return, but here, not on RationalWiki, where it is supposedly against policy. Nor have I linked to this blog. Rather, impersonation socks have pretended to dox, to create reactions in ordinary RW users.
I also contacted the Wikimedia Foundation, you are not getting unblocked.
I hope he did contact them, because those complaints can then be subpoenaed. I’m pretty sure that they would not have told him, though, that I’m not getting “unblocked.” If they did, they violated policy, because policy is not to discuss locks. (It’s a global lock, not a block. It is far more intrusive than a block. However, I only need write access to WMF wikis for one purpose, and I can easily get around the lock with any of several methods. I’m not going to describe this for obvious reasons. I’ve been following global locking for years and know what the WMF does. One globally locked user actually almost made bureaucrat on Wikiversity before he was noticed.
Nobody wants your drama so just stop and move on with your life!
The drama on RationalWiki is being caused by massive impersonation socking, it’s not me. I have pointed it out, with far fewer edits, far less drama. The hysterical response is mostly coming from Debunking spiritualism.
When I first discovered the Anglo Pyramidologist socking, I had no idea of the extent of it. However, damage was being done, and there were general issues. This was not personal. My habit is to study and document before coming to conclusions. So I started collecting information, and I was heavily attacked by sock puppets, and Wikiversity itself was attacked. And I was threatened. That was a clue to me that I had stumbled onto something big. Most sock masters pay little attention to documentation, they don’t attack it. Most sock masters do not want to be discovered and seen. (A very few are seeking attention, but wikis commonly misunderstand those who sock.) The attacks were like nothing I’d seen before. And the more I documented the more they attacked. They claimed that I was wrong, or that I was lying. But they never actually pointed to specific errors, in spite of many requests. And that is still happening! (Much of what they claim as Abd Bad Behavior isn’t about errors, it’s about, in fact, telling the truth when the truth is allegedly private.
Originally they claimed that I was wrong to lump together Anglo Pyramidologist with the other socks, but I didn’t actually do that, I was aware of the possibility that this was mostly two brothers from early on, and I never claimed that all the accounts were the same person.
Now what I’ve found is that all this behavior had long ago been seen and documented by others, and that anyone who confronts AP socks will be attacked, and many have given up, because it was causing so much damage. I’m not likely to accept intimidation, because I see it as opportunity. I see the WMF ban as an opportunity to address certain long-term issues with the WMF, and I’m in discussions over that with a WMF functionary. And will be in discussions, I expect, with WMF legal … which is, of course, up to them, but I’m quite confident that they will talk with me, because if they don’t, they will be facing legal necessity. That is not at all difficult to accomplish, it is merely a nuisance, it’s work.
I am not “threatening legal action,” I am considering it, and that is not intended to intimidate, it is to inform. Any lawyer would know how to respond to this, and it is not to ridicule it, unless the lawyer wants to increase the fees he or she can charge. RationalWikians and the Smiths have just about zero legal knowledge, so they ridicule what they don’t understand. Now, back to this troll:
If people such as myself want to edit Rationalwiki that is free-will. Please stop trying to control other peoples lives. Some of us make money from this, it is good fun editing.
I also can edit RationalWiki free-will if I choose. “Some of us make money from this” is quite interesting. Indeed we do, this way or that. I am supported as a journalist, so I also “make money” writing, though so far, I only have a fund for expenses, so that I can travel and pay service providers, etc.
I am not trying to control anyone. However, I am documenting what those “people” do, and if you want to hide it, you might well consider me an enemy. I’m a journalist, and journalists are assassinated, it is not uncommon. We understand the risk and we accept it. So does this troll imagine that I’ll be intimidated by ridicule and threats and … some sock admin on RationalWiki who will attempt to hit me with the banhammer, which years ago I learned had no weight.
(However, when a ban is accompanied by defamation, it can then cause harm and is then actionable. And impersonation to defame is a crime in many jurisdictions, especially where the Smith brothers live. Many people have pointed this out to the Smiths, but enforcement is often lax, so a civil suit might be necessary, and that, then, can also lead to criminal prosecution. There are technical difficulties with that, and costs, but … I know, in round outlines, how to proceed and I know that many people are interested.
In other words, AP presented me with a challenge, to use skills that I’ve developed over a lifetime. Will I rise to the challenge? I’ve said this: I will not do this alone. I do have support, and that will become more and more visible. I’m trained to create that, I paid a lot of money and spent a lot of time — insane amounts of time — much more than the money — to gain that training.
Let’s say you live to 85 years old, that mean you have 11 years left, heck you may make 90 or 100. My grandad is 102 but he actually has a life, he doesn’t sit foaming at the mouth arguing with men online all day like you do with your trousers down.
I’m not foaming at the mouth. Foaming at the mouth is a decent description of some of the recent AP rants. You imagine that someone who does what I’m doing must be furious, but if I’m furious, I would be disempowered, so what I notice reactions like that arising, I do something else for a while.
Sorry for the grandfather that he has a grandchild like you, but win a few, lose a few. Oliver Smith (perhaps he is your brother) said he was disgusted by my having seven children (two adopted), and I have six grandchildren, with another in the oven. I could be said to have a life, already, and the RW article only touches on a few aspects of it. I spend very little time “arguing with men online.” I spend a lot more time documenting what I see, with regard to this AP affair, but also with regard to much else. I spend a lot of time actually talking with real people.
“Trousers down” is a favorite AP phrase in his attack sock names. This troll is obviously immature, stuck in adolescent habits. A bit under thirty with delayed development, seems about right.
(Could this be mikemikev? I know of nobody else who, by reputation, might do this, and it seems unlikely because I’d think mikemikev would see me as a possible ally. Of course, if he’s like the Smiths, he might want to get me fired up about the Smiths. But … this way? What I’ve read from Mikemikev simply isn’t like the Smiths at all. There are almost certainly impersonations of him, as there are for most Smith targets. The impersonations on RW show the behavior, even more clearly than I’d seen in the past. A sock using a name that will immediately suggest the target. Real socks from most people don’t do that, only a few trolls do it. The sock then writes something that would be seen by the naive as supporting an imagined agenda for the target. The current socks actually quote me, then follow it up with a twist, something that goes far beyond what I actually wrote. Current AP socks are also quoting what IPs have written, when “there is no technical evidence,” a common AP refrain referring to connecting his own socks.
It doesn’t matter to AP, because he is aiming for an effect on the audience, which, on RW, is the regular RatWikians. However, here, he claims that he’s being paid. By whom?
An impersonation sock just mentioned Tim Farley, as if I think Farley is involved. If the Smiths are being paid, a reasonable suspicion for the source would be JREF or GSOW, and Farley is connected with those, but I have no evidence that Farley is aware of what the socks are doing, nor that he would support it if aware. I have seen contrary evidence, and have no beef with Farley. However, I have not researched the tumbleman affair on Wikipedia. I am not Rome Viharo and am not following his lead, but am in communication with him because there are many possibilities there, and I generally respect him. I have some idea of what he has been through.
(If Farley is one of those who complained to the WMF, he will be hearing from me. But I rather doubt it.)
Do you really want to waste these years bickering with users on the internet? It means nothing. Reality is more than this. Why not do something decent with your life? Go on holiday. I heard Australia is a good place.
I never know what is wasted and what is not. My practice is to trust reality and an aspect of that is authenticity and honesty … and telling truth to power. The real question would be whether or not the real-world harm is enough to justify my time. However, this could also be considered a hobby. I happen to be really good at Sudoku, and I use them to measure my attentiveness, something that can decay as we get older. I happen to be really good at investigating wiki disruption. That is, I see stuff that others miss. However, doing this alone is not so much fun, so, again, how far I will go with this depends on how much others choose to support it and participate. I’ve taken this so far with the resources and support that I already have, and I’m not done yet. But … I am travelling in June and may travel before that, I will be going to ICCF-21 in Colorado, and I have a son in Colorado. I don’t do tourism. I do learning experiences. I have friends in Australia but I don’t see that as happening soon. Maybe I’ll go to England and visit Watford. Eh? Wouldn’t that be fun?
The paid editing by the way is true. I likely make more money than you.
Almost everyone does. Now, who are you and how would I know? All the above is trolling. I’m a real person, this troll is what? He can lie and there are no consequences, he thinks. Reality knows, however, and he lives in reality, whether he realizes it or not, and reality will remain with him the rest of his life. If he has filled it with lies, that’s what will fill his life. The more he lies, the more difficult it will become to live a life worth living, and suicide becomes attractive for some. And it doesn’t matter who he is, these are general truths about life.
I would not dare to lie about any of this, it’s deadly. “The curse of God is on the liars.” I wonder if this troll would dare to declare who he is, to authenticate it as I have authenticated the few socks I created on RationalWiki, if he would dare to live in the light, not hiding.
Oliver Smith, at least, finally came out and spoke for himself, he is taking the first steps toward responsibility. I wrote to him that he could clean it all up, maximally recover, by simply telling the truth about what he knows, including what he did and what he knows about what others did. Testimony. Nothing other than fact, not “explanations,” or accusations. Others may have been racist, pseudoscientific, pedophile apologists (though that claim is terminally weak), and that is irrelevant. The bad behavior of others provides us no excuse for our own.
BTW still have active account on Wikipedia, Stuart Vyse and Tim Farley love my skeptical editing 🙂
You said this before, but not giving those names. That you give the names indicates to me that you are what is currently called a “fucking liar.” What you would be doing here is attempting to get me to attack them. I don’t know who Stuart Vyse is, though I suppose I’ll find out. I do know Farley and have some decent communication with him.
I doubt that Mikemikev would attempt to get me to attack Vyse and Farley. So this then leads me to still suspect that this is Darryl, who mixes truth with lies quite liked this. I have not collected all the comments of the impersonation socks on Wikiversity and Meta, but those — saying much the same as is here — were clearly Darryl, that is no longer deniable. Or, perhaps, Oliver was lying. I prefer to think, for the moment, that he was telling the truth about that, factoring for his own insanities.
I glanced at RationalWiki earlier. Darryl has continued to stir the pot. Meanwhile, Authentic, Open Honesty, The Real deal, and Full Disclosure have been blocked by him, so don’t be surprised if Deception and Lies — and the like — show up. What you get when you block truth is what?
Okay, I just looked at RW. I found that the only edit of Authentic has been revision-deleted, by ReadyMade, thus confirming an already-mildly-suspected AP sock. Looking at the page log, there is quite a story there, I’ll document it elsewhere. Every move that Darryl and Oliver make reveals more about reality. The problem here is not lack of evidence, it is actually too much! The Smiths learned that they can confuse a community with furious activity.