A kind reader supplied me with a link to an archive of deleted material on the Smiths. This was from late 2016, long before I had any awareness of the Smith brothers (and only a dim awareness of one of the Wikipedia socks of Darryl L. Smith, Goblin Face).
The material is exactly what I’d expect from Darryl, in an unguarded moment. It confirms my own conclusions from research. I can imagine that someone familiar with this research, by myself and others, could write such a thing, but it would be a piece of work, and why would it be done? (though the only persons likely to have that knowledge could not have done it in 2016). If this was impersonation, as Oliver claims, it is by far the most skillful impersonation I’ve ever encountered. No, I consider this clearly Darryl, the arguments would be his, and the facts rarely known. At that point, there was substantial skepticism that there were actually two brothers. Later, Oliver played on this by claiming that it was all him, but this was blatantly deceptive, probably attempting to protect his brother (and requiring that very much he had written before was lying, not merely false).
The only way that the brothers could have covered up the deception would have been to, using technical terms, “effing shut up and effing stay shut up.” They did not, and defamation and, yes, illegal activity, still continues.
The material: Talk:Oliver D. Smith/Connecting the dots, edit of 18:27, 27 November 2016 (to deleted page, by Iambic, Oliver D. Smith, replying to Lulzkiller, who rejected the post by Skeptic, Darryl L. Smith). What “Skeptic” had written:
Request to delete this page please read
What Oliver has said about the brothers is true. I have not appeared anywhere in relation to this anywhere until now so I will only type one message here, please read this.
Oliver has written a lot. What Oliver had written was, at least sometimes, true, but misleading. That is, it was not the whole truth. Because of the Wikipedia history, and other events, the brothers had become confused, and it appears that this confusion was encouraged. So, then, Oliver could claim “I was not that account,” and it could be completely true. But if he knows that it was his brother, and he would often know that it was not the whole truth, and Oliver often frames the possibly false statements of others as “lies.” Which would be a lie! He would know that there was some truth to them, and that the writer was merely confused.
Skeptic, by the way, would be a standard Darryl L. Smith sock name. Many of his names have “Skeptic” in them. An impersonator might also use Skeptic, to be sure, but no impersonator exists who could have written, in 2016, what Skeptic here so clearly expresses. I have other “semi-open” writings from Darryl, and the style and sense is identical.
I understand that Oliver for the last 3 years has had a personal internet battle with a guy called mikemikev. JuniusThaddeus seems to have got involved in this as well and it has been going on for years now.
Pretty much all the accounts listed by JuniusThaddeus are accurate.
Nice. Later, Darryl and Oliver dismiss, on RationalWiki, documentation on this, as the “paranoid Smith brothers conspiracy theory.”
I am not denying they belong to us, I only own the skeptic accounts on wikipedia and rationalwiki, it’s pretty easy to see which ones are mine, the ones debunking spiritualism, fraudulent mediums, alternative medicine, pseudoscience, quacks etc.
Notice that, later, he actually created a RatWiki account, “Debunking spiritualism,” that was made sysop. This account was obviously Darryl. It went out in a blaze of attempts to delete embarrassing material, and then retired and then a new account was creating that the account had been hacked. This is extremely unlikely, it is merely that the account revealed too much, including about the “family,” clearly identifying himself as Oliver’s brother — as Oliver had previously referred to him on RatWiki. Darryl decided to bail, and the new account and Oliver blamed it on . . . me, and the RatWikians appear to have believed that.
One thing the Smiths have been very good at is demonstrating how idiotic a wiki community can be.
The reason Oliver denied owning the skeptic accounts is because they belong to me. He doesn’t want the skeptic accounts under his name for some reason. He does not identify as a skeptic.
Right. He uses RatWiki to pursue an antifascist agenda, attacking people who believe as he possibly once believed. He has a number of times stated that he does not agree with the general RatWiki politics. The brothers are similar in that.
A long time ago when I was in my teens I was a believer in paranormal phenomena, even endorsing various silly things like ancient aliens on wikipedia.
Yes, he stated that in a comment on the Wikipedia Anglo Pyramidologist SPI case. (Below, we see evidence that he was a supporter of Larmarkian evolution.
Over the years I started to realise it was all nonsense after I went to university, based on wishful thinking or the result of fraud or self-deception and I became a skeptic. I debunked a lot of people and things on both rationalwiki and wikipedia.
Unfortunately, “debunking” is generally pseudoskeptical. I see no sign that Darryl L. Smith ever developed enough understanding of science to write from a genuine skeptical perspective, and I’ve seen him reject genuine science because it conflicted with his own ignorant concepts.
I regret creating the rationalwiki pages I have to to dislike rationalwiki it is not an academic website or as professional as Wikipedia. But I disagree that they are ‘hit’ pages.
Partially incoherent, possible typo. Some are hit pages, and were created, at least in some cases, as revenge. My article was clearly so, and Darryl had, through a sock puppet, threatened retaliation for my exposing his impersonations of another user. The argument here is exactly what I’d expect from Darryl.
All the criticisms I made of creationists, parapsychologists or of fraudulent spiritualist mediums, ancient astronaut proponents etc were sourced to scientific or skeptic publications.
At this point, he had not encountered my work, and his attacks on me and some others were not of what he describes above. He admits, below, another “criticism” that doesn’t fall into these categories. Yes, he sources his articles, generally. However, sources have often been cherry-picked, because the RatWiki general agenda is snark, not balance. That is standard pseudoskepticism, and would not have led to my involvement. Rather, it was impersonation-to-defame, and, to a lesser extent, long-term sock puppetry and “attack socks,” SPAs or IPs that only edit to attack.
I honestly cannot workout the obsession with my skeptic edits on wikipedia or rationalwiki. What business is it of anyone here? I don’t get it.
The wikis are public and what happens on them is of public interest. What business is it of Darryl that so-and-so is interested in or a believer in, say, parapsychology? Darryl, creating those articles, he calls them “skeptic edits,” scours the internet for dirt, what is popular on RationalWiki, things that make the target look like a crank, and documents them on RW, attacking the person by their real name, and outing any accounts they attempt to use (or that might appear to be used) to correct articles, as well as outing anyone who attempts to intervene (sometimes correctly, sometimes not). And he wonders why people are interested in clarifying the situation?
Some people documenting the Smiths have been heavily attacked by them, some were more neutral. I did not start out because I was attacked, but because someone else was attacked and the academic freedom of Wikiversity was attacked. And that attack became more intense and was supported by some Wikipedians, who happened to be long-term POV pushers there, one of whom was site banned for a couple of years for it. The other was reprimanded by the Arbitration Committee out of . . . his clearly improper actions, and his refusal to correct them when I suggested it. At that point, the whole faction came after me.
RationalWiki took a general, so-called “rational skeptic” position, before Darryl, but it was not dedicated to exposing every crank or fringe believer. It became so, largely because of Darryl’s work. And there is a pattern: Darryl creates an attack article, the target shows up, and eventually realizes that the creator of the article has been creating many such articles through extensive serial socking, and says so. The target is then banned for “doxxing” — even if this is not actually doxxing, i.e., doesn’t mention the RL names. And such bans are often by a Darryl sock.
(But sometimes they do mention “Smith”, and sometimes, even, Smith socks have themselves pointed to the “Smith brothers theory”
to ridicule it. The page was not as pretended in the deletion discussion. It was started by MrOrganic
, an obvious Smith sock. Which Smith? I am not sure, not yet, but probably Darryl, in which case Darryl was running multiple socks. The article was then attacked by a series of impersonation socks. At that point, I was a RationalWiki sysop, and this mess was used as an excuse to remove the tools without cooping (the normal process, if anything is normal on RW. Attempts had failed years earlier.) and then to block me. That deletion discussion was either stupid or collusively deceptive.
As well, many impersonation socks appear as vandals and attacking RationalWiki users, pretending to be the target. Meanwhile, Darryl and Oliver retire their accounts and start new ones to continue the same. )
Millions of people edit Wikipedia. I am essentially a nobody. Nothing I have done on the internet is illegal.
He is now notable, by RatWiki standards, except he is protected there. So he is covered elsewhere, such as on Encyclopedia Dramatica or lolocow or other sites. The claim of “nothing illegal” might possibly have been true in 2016. It became untrue in 2017. Impersonation socking to defame is illegal. It is a form of harassment, and is illegal specifically where the Smith brothers live, assuming that they both still live in the U.K.
I may have upset people by debunking their nonsensical beliefs on wiki websites but there is no crime in this. The majority of the stuff I add is sourced, it is not my own opinion.
Material exists in sources, which is then used to create an image, and that image may go far outside what is actually in the sources. Again, this is quite what I would expect from Darryl. By the way, such an agenda would be a violation, not of law, but of Wikipedia policy, as blatant “POV-pushing.” With biographies of living people, it can be an additional violation. However, there is a whole faction on Wikipedia with that agenda, and it has often gotten away with it. In addition, there is an organization more or less dedicated to this, which may be violating policy against off-wiki coordination, and there is substantial evidence that Darryl has been paid to serve that agenda. Again, that is not illegal in itself, but if people have been defamed by a Smith brother who was funded, the organization and its organizers could become liable for defamation.
The idea that if a statement is sourced, it is therefore true and proper, is insane. You can find sources for almost any position. Sanity (and encyclopedic wiki neutrality) involves considering the full range of sources and balancing them, and on a wiki, ideally, this is done through consensus. But the faction acts, often, to arrange the ban of anyone with contrary opinions, and has developed skill in accomplishing this. RatWiki is practically a parody of it. The same thing happens on Wikipedia, just a bit less obviously.
Oliver holds a minority of fringe academic views and he has got me banned on wikipedia numerous times for causing trouble on there. They then checkuser our location and my accounts come up. There is not much I can do about that.
That’s deceptive. There is a great deal that he could do and could have done. Darryl could have exposed his brother’s activities instead of waiting until he accidentally got caught. Here, he doesn’t state it, but he is claiming that his brother lied when his brother claimed that most of the accounts were his twin brother.
I have not yet done an overall analysis of accounts. Most RatWiki accounts, though, appear to have been Darryl, my rough impression. Especially when the transient attack and impersonation socks are included. I know that Darryl does engage in this massive socking. As well, if someone was impersonating them in doing this, a proactive response would have been to immediately confront it and disavow — and support the targets against whoever was causing the disruption. I have never seen that happen. No, the attack socks are going after people Darryl or Oliver consider as enemies. Darryl on RatWiki has often blocked them, but …. the timing, when I’ve looked, indicates to me that he also created them. He also, as Debunking spiritualism, attributed many attack socks to me, when he would know that they were not me. He was obsessed with me, based on his edits to my article there. He would know exactly what was me and what was, instead, displaying a very different pattern.
I am not very much active on the website anymore, I ran out of things to debunk.
He may have slowed, I have not yet analyzed this. But he became intensely active there, after he attacked Wikiversity and me.
Dan Skeptic, DinoCris were me.
DinoCrisis. That was obvious. That is, Dan Skeptic was an earlier name of GoblinFace, tagged on Wikipedia as an AP sock from checkuser. DinoCrisis was an early RationalWiki account.
As were the other skeptic accounts on Wikipedia. Oliver does not know anything about parapsychology, his interest has always been history, mythology etc.
Right. This was how I have distinguished the accounts, already.
The only controversial thing I have ever done is create a rationalwiki article on Rome Viharo.
Bingo. The above was written in late 2016. Darryl’s anti-parapsychology obsession led him into attacking the Wikiversity resource on parapsychology, and going after the single major active user there, who occasionally socked on Wikipedia, with massive impersonation socking to induce Wikipedians to attack the Wikiversity user and the educational resource the user was working on (a collection of sources). It worked. Wiki users can be effing naive. If a new account says “I am Banned User, I’m showing what idiots you are on Wikiversity, and you can’t do anything about it!” they believe it. It’s one thing to block the account — that would be obvious — but quite another to go after than person, now under his real name, and attack his work as “cross-wiki disruption.” Which is what happened.
As to the Rome Viharo article creator, This could be Dave1234
, who created a redirect there, or Debunker
, who actually wrote the first article. Both were very likely Darryl, from other contributions. Millenium Scallion
? No. It is not difficult to distinguish the socks from ordinary RatWiki users.
He is a troll I came across under my account Dan Skeptic on wikipedia.
And, of course, when Viharo claimed Smith brother involvement, that was cited as proving he was a troll.
Since then Rome Viharo has targeted Oliver who has immaturely done things on various websites and forums to retaliate, even on this website. There is not much we can do about this, but 90% of it is all deleted.
It is quite unlikely that Oliver created the impersonation socks on Wikipedia, targeting a student of parapsychology and his studies on Wikiversity. Steward checkuser also identified the socks that massively attacked my documentation of those impersonations and the Single-purpose accounts that followed, as being all the same user. It is very unlikely that this was accidental IP coincidence, it was extended, and we know that the Smiths often have used open proxies; by this time, late 2017, that became routine.
Oliver no longer is interested in creating blogs or websites about Rome Viharo’s abuse. He wants it all deleted.
Ah, but was that Oliver? Why would Oliver have been interested in Rome Viharo in 2016? Maybe if Rome was starting to document what had happened to him, and believed that Dan Skeptic was Oliver. At that point, there was no information about “Darryl L. Smith,” if I’m correct.
JuniusThaddeus says he wants a photograph. I’m sorry I am not doing that. I am in full time employment, I have a job and am in a relationship. I don’t want my personal details up or name slandered and pictures put up about me. I have the right to remain anonymous on the internet.
By doxxing others, which the Smiths have done, and by their mutual tolerance and failure to stop it, both become responsible and the right to privacy vanishes when it is abused. Obviously, though, Darryl has no obligation to provide photos, nor to identify which brother is which in old photos. These are twin brothers, but I don’t know if they are identical.
We are not blaming anyone here at ED for being our accounts, they belong to us. Oliver has made the mistake of blaming JuniusThaddeus for these accounts because he can’t mention my name so just decided to blame him. He doesn’t want the skeptic stuff under his name. There is not much I can do about it.
That’ s a disclaimer of responsibility, when there is much that he could do. Oliver, by the way, has taken a similar position that he is not responsible for what his brother does. That is a shallow and self-serving opinion. We are responsible, in reality, for what we allow in those close to us. If we help them cover up, say, illegal activity, we can be committing a crime ourselves in that.
Oliver in the past has made a lot of mistakes. He regrets joining metapedia. He was associated with the BNP briefly. He used to believe that biological races are real. He no longer holds these positions and since turned the opposite debunking the idea of race.
Yes. (and I have seen evidence for all of this.) However, from my point of view, his fundamental position remained the same. He’s a hater, and simply changed targets.
Oliver does not have schizophrenia, he made that up because he fell out with mikemikev and metapedia so wanted to make them look bad but it back-fired.
Notice the theme, this is repeated. It is claimed that “schizophrenia” was a lie., but, then, it is admitted that it was a lie created by a Smith brother to make others look bad. And then that they repeat what the Smith brother wrote, they are called liars, because it is “false.” I see in Oliver definite signs of deranged behavior, but I have also seen this in Darryl. If it is schizophrenia, which it could be, that tends to run in families and if they are identical twins, it could show up in both, and even if they merely shared their mother at the same time. There is other evidence of mental disorder, with different names. In the cloud of confusion created by years of deception, I consider none of this reliable. However, I do conclude that this present comment is from Darryl, it fits far to well to be an impersonation, as Oliver will claim.
As for JuniusThaddeus unfortunately he now has a large grudge against Oliver and stalks him across the internet.
And this is mind-reading. Junius Thaddeus has suffered real-life harassment from Oliver, apparently. Junius is a person who researches topics that seize his interest. Now, consider my article on RationalWiki. When that article appeared, after what may have been weeks of research, I was amazed at how much had been found, by someone obviously “stalking me across the internet.” “Stalking” is what RatWikians do to write articles on people. Apparently they think that this is okay if the person is a “crank.” But not if they are fine upstanding citizens like … like themselves, of course.
They can doxx others all they want on RationalWiki and it is mostly tolerated or even encouraged there. But if anyone doxxes them, on RationalWiki or elsewhere, they act to ban the person on RatWiki for “doxxing RationalWiki users,” even when they are the only users whose identities are revealed.
For example uploading those recent pictures of Oliver is not very fair. Oliver now wants to move on in his life I have spoken to him about this and he agrees. He is going to cease all internet communications with mikemikev, Rome Viharo and all these other people like Lulzkiller (above) who posts on lolcows.
I have found that promises from the Smith brothers are utterly useless, whether or not they are lies.
Regarding certain beliefs, Olvier used to hold various views and changes his position over time, this is perfectly natural. Like myself he is embarrassed about some of his former beliefs. Change happens.
Yes, it does. But some changes are superficial, like changing from hating, say, other races, to hating racists. It’s still hate, and the approach is still the same: expose and debunk and defame — and lie and hide and sock and impersonate if that helps “the cause.”
Apparently users here seem to think we have to stay static all our lives. Some of the skeptics I greatly admire started out as believers in things but shifted their position drastically over the years. Like I said this is natural.
Oliver was embarrassed about his posts when he was 14 or 15 years old on the tomb raider forum so it is natural he would deny them. Don’t we all posts stupid things when we are young? I think it is ridiculous that this sort of thing has ended up here at ED. Nobody cares about it and it is not funny.
It is natural to change views, and natural that adolescents will do something embarrassing. And others even older. However, it is not necessarily natural to deny that it ever happened. Basically, Darryl is here making excuses for his brother for lying.
As for lolcows website that now stalks Oliver it contains deliberate falsehoods to try and annoy him.
Yes. That’s lolcow. So? Nobody looks to the lolcow wiki for reliable information. The Smith brothers have done all this in spades and it is done routinely on RationalWiki.
Encyclopedia Dramatica is also for lulz, it is a satire and parody site, with some underlying actual research. Indeed, that’s what is done on RationalWiki, but with a veneer of serious intention enough to fool readers, as it did with media about Emil Kirkegaard in January 2018, with all that being solicited by Oliver contacting media.
I use nothing from those sites without careful independent verification. However, the page being discussed here
was a sober account of investigation, essentially the personal testimony of Junius Thaddeus. It is as reliable as he is. Over the years, I have found him trustworthy. I still personally verify everything and don’t use ED as if a “reliable source.”
Oliver is not a peadophile or attracted to children in anyway shape or form. His biggest enemy is peadophiles and the sexually immoral, he even used this website in the past and another to attack a peadohpile and warn people about them. It is slander to call someone a peadophile when they are not one and you have no evidence.
That’s correct, and Oliver has done exactly that. This is not actually arguable.
My request here is for this page to be deleted.
And why? It’s a personal account of a study. It is not actually an attack, just a history, and in this request, Darryl admits it is basically accurate. By the way, Darryl and Oliver also sought to delete my meta LTA study, and forum-shopped until they got the answer they wanted. It was, by that time, completely unnecessary, having long been moved to my blog.
The Smiths attempt to hide, even as their actual activity created a great deal of attention. The intense attacks actually convinced me that there was more to this than appeared at first, i.e., some isolated pseudoskeptical fanatic. I’m still uncovering what actually happened, and how deep this goes and who is involved. It is not just the Smith brothers, who are what I have called “attack dogs.” There are those who use attack dogs.
1. Nobody is blaming ED for owning our Wikipedia or rationalwiki accounts. We created them. But many of these skeptic accounts belong to me not Oliver. So it is actually false and not factual to say they are his.
They are “Smith brothers” accounts. So what would be appropriate is to make that clear. Eventually, that was, indeed, made clear. When Oliver Smith actually wrote me, from an account known to be his by public usage, he made statements that confirm what is written above.
However, when I documented “Anglo Pyramidologist socks,” using the Wikipedia name for the sock puppet investigations, and being quite clear that these were likely two brothers (and maybe more), the studies were still attacked as lies. This, again, is typical for AP socks: instead of correcting errors, they want it all deleted. When I asked Oliver, in those emails, to detail which accounts were his and which were his brother, he declined. Too much trouble, was his excuse. Okay, but in that case he remains responsible, as a collective responsibility.
2. Oliver’s mental health has deteriorated and he wants to move on with his life. JuniusThaddeus has been angry but seems to have an unhealthy obsession with stalking Oliver. I request for this to stop and everyone just move on with their lives.
Again, this is what I expect Darryl to say. The Smiths create massive disruption and then want everyone to just forget about it and move on. And some do. And then they repeat the pattern with others, and the damage grows and gets deeper.
3. Oliver at the end of the day is also a nobody, this page exists because of his personal feud with JuniusThaddeus.
This is obviously not true now, but he could reasonably have alleged that, then. Junius Thaddeus did delete the page, and others restored it. Junius retired from his documentation crusade, and why? It simply became too much for him, and this is quoted in the current Oliver D. Smith article:
“I didn’t realize what I was getting into when I decided to document the activities of a psychopath. It’s just too much.” —JuniusThaddeus who regrets encountering Oliver
I understand. I had no idea what all this would lead to. I was being heavily threatened, but am not easily persuaded by threats. (I’ve been internet-active, in controversial areas, where real people actually get assassinated, and there are real fanatics, and I have received bomb threats.) Threats on the meta wiki were from Darryl, I’m reasonably certain, and Oliver has confirmed that, my opinion. These are serious bullies, who do what they accuse others of, attack by Google.
What’s it like when you have a business meeting, and you are asked about your RationalWiki article? What’s it like when you have a woman friend, and her children confront her about her friend, based on believing what is in the RationalWiki article? What’s it like when one is covered in major media as a “pedophile” or “child rape apologist” when this is based on insane interpretations in the RationalWiki article on you, and has never been your position or activity, and was nothing more than out-of-context interpretations of what you actually wrote? What’s it like when your mother is fired from her job because Oliver Smith wrote her employer? These have all actually happened to Smith targets.
I decided that I could take the heat, and …. I’m not dead yet. I will be, soon enough. It’s a challenge. I need to write legal documents, filings or pleadings, which I haven’t done for years. It’s a pain in the ass. I’ll do it anyway. Back to Darryl:
I think it is silly to have three pages here at ED dedicated to him and unfair, and it is getting freaky the stalking behavior. This is Junius’s personal grudge war. I would appreciate if this page could be deleted. Like I said I have owned up to these accounts which were actually mine not Oliver’s. Nobody is saying they belong to ED.
Oliver wants to move on with his life. I have spoken to him and he will not longer communicate with JuniusThaddeus, Mikemikev, post on forums, blogs, reddit or any of the other immature things he was doing. He wants to move on with his life and he is involved with a job now.
When Oliver wrote to me this year, expressing the same desire, I told him the way forward was clear: disclose everything about all the disruption he has created, just what he knows and actually did, and, as well what he knows about his brother. If his brother were to do that, the entire mess could be cleaned up. As it is, the brothers have created real-world responses. It may be more than they can clean up, but they could take a stand and support the cleanup, fully. They could, for example, apologize to me and to the WikIMedia foundation for any deceptive implications in what they wrote (and they were complainants who, with a few others whom they recruited, created the WMF global ban and, as well, the major damage to Wikiversity academic freedom, with long-term implications). I don’t know how they will compensate Joshua Connor Moon’s mother for her job loss, but, again, becoming willing to be completely truthful would be a start.
JuniusThaddeus says its odd for family members in their 20s to still be living together. I am pretty sure Junious is older than Oliver yet still living at home with his mum and dad. It really is of no interest to ED who Oliver lives with or what he does with his life.
On Encyclopedia Dramatica and Kiwi Farms (lolcow wiki) this can be of high interest! This is basically irrelevant and would not be a reason for deletion on ED.
Why don’t you guys just live your life? Oliver like myself is a nobody at the end of the day.
It is coming up to Christmas and I just think it is sad that this stupid online battle is still going on.
It will soon be coming up on two years later, and the drama continues. If it was so stupid, surely the one arguing that, here, would give it up. The evidence I have indicates that Darryl was being paid. It is currently circumstantial, not direct. This admission was remarkable. It may have been completely sincere, even if misguided. The page and the talk page were moved by Junius Thaddeus to a Smith Brothers article, and then both were deleted on ED. How did the Smith Brothers respond?
To me it looks like they took this as “we won,” and continued playing the same games. After all, if you are winning, why stop? Recently, though, it appears that Google results are freaking them out, and they have been getting desperate. There are other effects working their way through the process. It takes time to consult with attorneys and time to create and file demand letters and legal actions.
There is a large world out there with many good things to see or get educated about. We all make mistakes but this whole thing is ridiculous. If the mods here have any sense of knowing what is right you should remove this page. JuniusThaddeus has removed other attack pages he has created on people. The whole point in ED is to be funny. These pages on Oliver are off-mission.
The Smith escapades are beyond hilarious. They are utterly and completely outrageous. There was a RatWiki user who has (had) a blog, “I’m not making this up.” That was generally about what passes for “conservative.”
I fully understand why ED users would want to keep the Oliver D. Smith page, and why there would be interest on Kiwi Farms. If Darryl doesn’t understand it, it could be because he’s a socially dysfunctional basement dweller. (Does he really have a job? Maybe. One of the socks appearing on the blog claimed that one of the brothers had a family he was supporting. Let’s say that this could not be Oliver. Yet Darryl is obviously dysfunctional, continuing to stir the pot, as he did with the impersonations on Wikipedia (illegal!) and the attacks on me for pointing that out. There is an obsession there, obviously, and I have other material to publish on this.)
I am not posting here again. You guys all need to move on in your lives. The world is bigger than this. We are all going to die one day, and I think it’s sad websites exist like this. I have made a lot of mistakes myself but you guys should just see sense and move on with your lives. Oliver has promised me from this week he will be doing this, so you will never hear from him again. Regards. Skeptic 04:48, 27 November 2016 (EST)
That did not happen. This year, Oliver attacked me on Junius Thaddeus’ talk page, and created many socks pursuing all this. Did Darryl ever again edit ED? Not with that account, for sure. I haven’t seen any other Darryl edits there, but it’s difficult to tell, there are brief snarky comments in sequences of Oliver sock attacks (or continued attempts to get his article deleted). All of these could be Oliver. There was an immediate response from one user:
Fuck off Oliver. CobaltCat
05:45, 27 November 2016 (EST)
CobaltCat appears to have been a regular ED user, and then
This reminds me so much of RationalWiki…. simply turned around.
In any case, what appears to be the real Oliver Smith shows up. He had already been arguing on that talk page:
The vast majority of these accounts are not mine; this article doesn’t record my internet history, but other peoples. Michaeldsuarez is a deranged liar. Barkhang Monastery 18:26, 25 August 2016 (EDT)
and then this, after more documentation from others
- 1. Vordrak has seen a family photo of me and my brothers. He knows I’m telling the truth and you’re a bunch of delusional idiots. I requested he covered a blog post on his forum about how Michael D. Suarez and Kiwi Farms have harassed me for the last year. He accepted, but I changed my mind a few days ago when I realized Rome Viharo was creating defamatory threads about me on forums (Wikipedia Sucks, Wikipediocracy etc). Vordrak doing an article on me will just feed Viharo’s trolling. Instead I will request to Vordrak he does a separate blog entry on Viharo.
- 2. Providing a family photo to Suarez is a obviously not an option since he’s cyberstalking and harassing me (just look at this creepy “connecting the dots” link where Suarez is trying to dig up my internet history, but failing), do you really think my brothers want this nutcase following them and writing more Encylopedia Dramatica articles filled with smears, lies and personal attacks?
- 3. Suarez has just admitted if I provided the photo – he still wouldn’t retract any of his misinformation about me because somehow its all my fault – when he is the dim-wit who confused my identity. As I mentioned in my post on Wikipediocracy: Suarez is one of those people who thinks he’s correct 100% of the time. He will never admit when he’s wrong and has a narcissistic personality disorder.
- 4. Several accounts/links of this “connecting the dots” include impersonators and dubious/no evidence to link my IP to them. So even if I showed what accounts were my brothers, it wouldn’t remove the accounts Suarez is outright lying about and trying to pin onto me.
- 5. It’s rather laughable Mikemikev falsely accuses me of impersonating people, when that’s all he does. Today Rationalwiki blocked yet another of his sockpuppets using my real name. (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Oliver_D_smith) Bacchylides 19:24, 25 November 2016 (EST)
The RatWiki account demonstrates absolutely nothing. The account was blocked on registration, it has no contributions (not even deleted or suppressed). There is no evidence shown that this was Mikemikev, other than purely circumstantial (i.e., perhaps nobody else would impersonate Smith). Or it could be a red herring. However, compare this: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Abd_ul-Rahman_Lomax, blocked as soon as recognized, but with two contributions. Absolutely not me, and this was one of many socks created there impersonating me, and claimed to be me, by Debunking spiritualism, i.e., Darryl.
This post rings totally, to me, as authentic Oliver Smith, as I have read a great deal directly from him. There are persistent mentions of another possible brother. It might explain certain anomalies. But I have no definitive information on this. One thing is clear to me: Michaeldsuarez may have been mistaken about this or that, but I’ve known him for years and I have never seen him lie. Crying “lies” is a common behavior of liars and trolls, and Oliver is both.
The Smiths commonly claim “there is no proof,” even when evidence is completely overwhelming. They claim impersonation, and very recently, Darryl L. Smith, as Debunking spiritualism on RW, went on a deletion rampage, mixing that in with a block of an enemy and an unblock of his brother, creating vast confusion, ultimately admitting to his “family being doxxed” to justify it, i.e., admitting he was a Smith brother, and then, next day, he retired and a new account appeared, claiming to be him and that the old one had been hacked, and, of course, I was accused of being the culprit. I think that trick was used by Oliver before, he claimed that the accounts on Metapedia, where he made racist comments, were hacked.
So then Darryl showed up and wrote the screed quoted above. And, after that skeptical rejection also quoted above, Oliver responded again. Damage control:
1. “Skeptic” isn’t mine, nor my brother. Its a troll impersonator from Kiwi Farms, probably Dynastia (I noticed him doing something similar here: https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User_talk:GethN7). The IP on “Skeptic” also won’t be mine.
That Dynastia comment bears no resemblance to what Skeptic wrote. Here is the discussion on that wiki. They conclusion there: this was “copypasta” from Oliver, not Oliver, it was actually Dynastia. That Oliver then jumps from that to attempting to connect Skeptical to Dynastia is his classic deception. The argument holds no water at all. Skeptical was not an Oliver impersonation, at all, but rather precisely how Darryl had behaved and had written, in many places, and at this point, Darryl was not at all well known, the focus had been on Oliver. I find it impossible to imagine that someone, in 2016, knew the situation well enough to create such a sophsticated impersonation. Only if Oliver was telling the truth when he claimed that he had been lying since 2011, and it was all him, then, of course, he’d have known that he created that persona and would have known what he had written before.
No, very unlikely, and it conflicts with checkuser evidence from WMF wikis, and just plain common sense.
Apparently Oliver IP and Darryl IP are almost always distinct, but they occasionally use the same address, so Oliver was setting up a red herring here by mentioning IP. ED does have checkusers, but checkuser would likely have provided zero useful information. Apparent Oliver socks are immediately blocked on ED, and they don’t care enough to go through the motions of verifying by checkuser.
2. Most of the above is misinformation; I do though share a Wikipedia IP and the edits on parapsychology were never me – so yes its true large chunks of the “connecting the dots” are not my accounts and Michael Suarez is a dim-wit who confused my identity. Needless the say, all the talk about me and sex at Kiwi Farms is libel; Lulzkiller is the sick freak spreading these lies about me because I exposed him as the pervert (https://lulzkillerblog.wordpress.com/2016/08/30/connor-evans-pests-females-on-twitter-for-sex-admits-to-watching-porn-all-day/).
The link is to an obvious attack blog created by an obvious AP sock, in a common tactic. They create these blogs and immediately archive them before the host takes them down. It purports to present the real name of “Lulzkiller.” (If Lulzkiller requests it, I will redact that link.) It is completely deranged to expect any other result than dedicated enmity if one does this. My guess? Lulzkiller doesn’t care about what he wrote being “exposed,” or he wouldn’t have written it. Lulzkiller is not far from normal as a young man. And, yes, this could later be embarrassing. Yet this was all irrelevant, feuding. It’s what Oliver and Darryl do.
No wonder the ED article was restored after Junius Thaddeus deleted it!
Oliver is deranged about sex, he acknowledged to be being an anti-natalist, and he commonly accuses others of “perversion,” sometimes for acknowledging normal male sexuality, about which he appears radically ignorant. At that point, Junius Thaddeus had not apparently realized the issue of two brothers. He did, later. The Smiths have lied for years, and then blame others for being “confused” “dim-wits.”
3. My brothers are not stupid and know nothing here will be deleted by requests. This site won’t remove content about people since its used to harass them like at Kiwi Farms.
Except they, and especially Oliver, keep pestering ED, with hosts of sock puppets. Hundreds, maybe thousands. They are very quickly blocked and immediately new socks replace them. Recently, AP socks requested the deletion of Rational Wiki articles that they had created. They did not, however, reveal that they had created them. In one request, for example, the article was called a revenge article. But they did not admit their own role. And they had succeeded, with years of impersonation socks and other tricks, that the article targets richly deserved the articles. So simply asking for deletion was not enough. To clean that up, they would need to admit, in detail, exactly what they had done. They would need to apologize to the community and to the targets, using real names and confirming how much disruption they had created, on RationalWiki and elsewhere.
4. I did not cease going after Gethn7; I work with Vordrak and we are obtaining his personal information by going through his internet history; the same for Lulzkiller. Eventually Vordrak will cover a blog post on them both. We just now do this behind these scenes. Lots more to come.
Notice that he admits stalking and harassment and attempted doxxing. Was this an impersonation? If so, brilliant! The impersonator knows exactly how Oliver would write and think. But I don’t think so. None of the people who might be candidates would be this accurate.
He worked with Vordrak for a time, (Samuel Collingwood Smith, no relation, apparently). Then apparently Vordrak figured out how crazy he was and that fell apart.
Yes, he does a lot “behind the scenes.” The Smiths file complaints with administrators, privately. They often succeed in getting their targets banned, and perhaps web sites taken down.
5. These ridiculous ED pages on me do not affect “my mental health”, whatever that is supposed to mean. My work colleagues and family have seen it all and know they are full of lies and smears and so they paint a false picture of who I am. And you don’t get many page views on my articles here because (a) I blocked them from UK search-engines for defamation and (b) I’m of little interest; few people search my name. Michael Suarez should have his own Kiwi Farms thread called the “goofy documenter with no life”. Iambic 13:27, 27 November 2016 (EST)
I cannot be sure that Oliver is lying about “Skeptic.” That is, he might not have known this was Skeptic, except he’d have known that the “impersonator” was mostly telling the truth. Later, Oliver personally confirmed much of the story. GethN7 is associated with RationalWiki, I’m not sure of his account there, but he ran into Oliver and wrote an expose, but eventually gave up, being so broadly attacked.
One of the extant Google complaints from Oliver is about the GethN7 blog. Google does not completely remove all trace of search results. The search I used was for Oliver D. Smith, and in the U.K. (where Oliver would care), there is a note with results that responses have been suppressed, and there is a link to see the complaints. On that linked page there are URLs with the critical name redacted, if it was in the URL. By knowing the name already, I was able to find all of them. Many still exist or have been archived. If a new employer is looking for “Oliver D. Smith” and sees the omitted results, they might do something similar. As well if the employer is in the U.K. and is at all sophisticated, they could use a proxy server to access Google in, say, the U.S. Trivial to do.
Hiding is not a decent strategy, particularly when one keeps up the behavior that one would want to hide, continually motivating others to document it. I explained all this to Oliver, and he rejected it, claiming that I was “immoral” because I was supporting alleged racists and pedophiles who had been defamed. He is clearly deranged. (I have never supported racism and pedophilia. There are no pedophiles associated with this situation, to my knowledge. I have pointed out that someone who was accused by Oliver D. Smith of being a pedophile was not, and Darryl pointed out that a false charge of pedophilia would be libel. He was right.)
His complaints would only affect Google access from the EU. Further, the huge pile of complaints would be a red flag to someone investigating that something was amiss.
Update: Darryl as Darryl
Public information showing Darryl as Darryl is rare. However, it exists, in spite of apparent efforts to erase it.
First of all, the famous “doxxing my family” image, which is in many places. The Smiths apparently don’t realize that by saying this is “my family” they are confirming it. Not terribly bright. (On Wikipedia, the standard advice, if you are outed, is not to mention it on-wiki, but email a functionary privately, to get it revision-deleted. Making a public fuss will call attention to it. However, if your goal is to prove that someone is Bad, not actually caring about your “family,” then you will wave it about and archive it!
(There is some evidence that this is not the “birth family,” but the home of a relative. At this point it does not matter. For me, the concept of two Smiths, rather than one, helps organize the data, and there are clearly two behavioral patterns and special interests. That there can be some overlap could be confusing. Oliver might edit “Rome Viharo” pages, as an example.)
Then there is https://www.researchgate.net/post/Are_mutations_random, apparently a question asked by Darryl Smith (“Deleted profile”, as can be seen by responses that quote him and refer to him as Darryl.)
Can_Neo-Darwinism_ND_today_be_considered_a_valid_scientific_theory begins with [Tip of the hat to Darryl Smith.]
In it, “Deleted profile” refers to another question of his. What_is_the_scientific_position_on_the_inheritance_of_acquired_characteristics_Lamarckism, In that, as well, he is called “Darryl.” That Answer set contains why he left ResearchGate.
In an Amazon discussion, the user was apparently Forests, one post refers to him as “Forrests [sic]/Drifter/Darryl Smith”. Another quotes him as claiming to have created the RationalWiki article on William Fix. That was created by DinoCrisis, a known Darryl sock.
Since I am collecting edit times, there are these notes:
- [Deleted by the author on Mar 26, 2013, 2:38:42 PM PDT]
- * Posted on Oct 25, 2012, 3:23:02 PM PDT
- [Deleted by the author on Mar 26, 2013, 2:38:53 PM PDT]
- * Posted on Oct 25, 2012, 5:48:56 PM PDT
- [Deleted by the author on Mar 26, 2013, 2:39:00 PM PDT]
- * Posted on Oct 25, 2012, 5:50:52 PM PDT
- [Deleted by the author on Mar 26, 2013, 2:39:07 PM PDT]
- * Posted on Oct 25, 2012, 10:10:51 PM PDT
Going to the internet archive, I find more for that thread.
- [Deleted by the author on Mar 26, 2013 2:09:30 PM PDT]
- * Initial post: Sep 2, 2012 2:28:50 PM PDT
- [Deleted by the author on Mar 31, 2013 5:37:10 AM PDT]
- * Posted on Sep 2, 2012 3:28:17 PM PDT
- [Deleted by the author on Mar 26, 2013 2:09:38 PM PDT]
- * Posted on Sep 2, 2012 5:00:05 PM PDT
- [Deleted by the author on Mar 26, 2013 2:09:49 PM PDT]
- * Posted on Sep 2, 2012 8:17:24 PM PDT
- [Deleted by the author on Mar 26, 2013 2:09:55 PM PDT]
- * Posted on Sep 2, 2012 8:22:32 PM PDT
- [Deleted by the author on Mar 26, 2013 2:10:04 PM PDT]
- * Posted on Sep 2, 2012 8:30:29 PM PDT
The middle of the discussion (which went on for a long time, for 1871 comments by last capture, April 7, 2013) is missing, AFAIK. So Darryl started the thread, about “Darwin believed in God.”
DinoCrisis retired from RatWiki, 22 August 2013, “