If our knowledge expands, is that “backpedalling”?

A remarkable post on LENR Forum — and posts like this are part of the reason that most scientists stay away.

IH Fanboy wrote:

[17 alleged examples of Dewey or Jed “misinformation.”] Here, I look at them, having known for a long time the tactic of presenting “overwhelming evidence” that vanishes when examined. Is that happening here?

Conclusion: IH Fanboy was creating noise, personally attacking Dewey and Jed, in a highly misleading way, with the effect of distracting from new information from Dewey about the lawsuit.

Continue reading “If our knowledge expands, is that “backpedalling”?”

Living in a fog

Planet Rossi is enshrouded in fog. Some of the fog may be deliberately produced, of the nature of FUD; however, much of it is simply wishful thinking that interprets evidence in certain ways, and is not even aware of the interpretation, it imagines it is declaring fact.

The Request for Hearing filed by Rossi on Tuesday is seeking a Protective Order. The Motion is extremely brief. The title:

NOTICE OF HEARING (add-ons – to be heard if time permits) 

And then the text is in a box, unusual as well:

Plaintiffs’ Motion for Protective Order As to the Depositions of J.M. Products, Inc., United States Quantum Leap, LLC, Fulvio Fabiani, and The Boeing Company

There is no clue what this is about. There are, as discussed, two kinds of Protective Order. The one that there is a stipulation about is about protecting disclosed information, already disclosed. This may be different, this may be attempting to prevent information from being disclosed, and, if so, it does make sense that this would not be described in public, more than it has been.

On E-Cat World, Frank Acland posted:

I believe this is the first time I have heard mention of Boeing in connection with Rossi, and Boeing has not been brought up in the court case until now. The only possible connection that I can think of is that Rossi has said in the past that he had been doing some kind of research involving a jet engine, and there was some kind of connection with an aerospace company — but as usual he was pretty vague about it all.

It sounds like whatever the depositions here are, that Rossi’s team is seeking a protective order, which means they don’t want the information in the depositions to be made public. So we might not find out what Boeing’s involvement might be. But it’s interesting to see them mentioned.

This was reasonable speculation.

Ged wrote:

We know Rossi was investigating the use of the QuarkX output for jet engines. Boeing most likely would have just consulted Rossi on what output, tolerance, and other design conditions would be necessary to work with different jet engine designs, and seen the data regarding all that. Maybe they even went as far as doing simulations. This would explain why Boeing is appearing on the Leonardo’s third parties’ side of the table.

What I notice is “Leonardo’s third parties’ side of the table.” There is no indication of Boeing being on “Rossi’s side.” Rossi previously opposed subpoenas for uninvolved parties (ie., his bank, and the telephone service provider).

 barty wrote:

According to Dewey Weaver (investor in IH and good friend of Thomas Darden) Boeing was testing the E-Cat together with IH: (LENR Forum link).

Well done, barty. Straight information, clearly attributed, including the affiliation of Dewey. How this was taken:

Ged wrote:

This is the first we have heard of this… Dewey is also extremely biased (monetarily and personally! Can’t get more biased than that) and has already heavily and intentionally mislead with statements about this case many times before, as we have seen as more data is released (as well as used absurd ignorance/hyperbol like the place melting and the heat being visible from space).

That’s a personal attack without evidence. “…. heavily and intentionally mislead.” I have never seen an example of that. Dewey is not a careful witness, writing like a scientist. He is, as stated, a friend of Darden and an investor — and a consultant for Industrial Heat. This is not any secret, and it’s obvious. Dewey has strong opinions. However, this would be a simple fact, the relationship of IH and Boeing. (The place melting would be hyperbole; it merely would get too hot for human habitation, if a megawatt were being dissipated in that warehouse without heat handling equipment, so … what was “misleading” about a little hyperbole, easily recognized as such or at least marginal? Some stuff might have melted, in fact, with a megawatt. Don’t carry a chocolate bar into the place! I don’t recall seeing that statement, but Dewey wrote quite a lot on Mats’ blog and elsewhere. “Visible from space” is quite possible, for a megawatt dissipated in a warehouse. Depends on what one was looking with, of course, but that much heat should be visible in the IR from a satellite, and, in fact, it is quite possible that IH purchased such images instead of hiring a helicopter, which is what I’d thought they might have done. If Dewey said “visible from space,” I’d certainly consider it possible! It makes sense, but not to someone who will knee-jerk reject anything from such a biased source.

In short, I don’t believe him or anyone till we get more actual information.

There is no basis for considering it a lie. It’s testimony, “information.” Sure, one may want to see corroboration, but if we consider the side Ged is arguing on, the constant flow of disinformation from Rossi, with a series of clear lies, exposed by uncontroverted evidence, and this comment about Dewey stands out in its full ridiculousness. Sure. Wait and see … but meanwhile, what is stronger, baseless speculations or actual testimony from someone likely to know?

Could be Boeing just made or leased some important piece of equipment and that is the extent of their involvement, or gave some consulting not directly related to the E-cat (like consulting on how to build a jet engine), and much less than actually testing one. Considering they are showing up on Rossi’s side and not being brought out by IH, that also is suggestive (could be they are the ones behind JMP in that case, that is how baseless we can speculate with such meager info on this surprise appearance).

One could speculate endlessly, it is always possible. However, none of these are at all reasonable in the sense of being substantially likely. Further, Rossi has actually commented on this, and this more or less nails it.

It’s hilarious: his attorneys have told him over and over, he claims, not to comment on the case, but …. he does.

    • Darius

      Dr Rossi, Now there comes a new claim that Boeing tested the Ecat for/with IH, and it did not work for them, were you present during this demonstration?

    • Andrea Rossi

      I never knew of this demo and I do not know with which apparatus it has been done. I apprehended of it during the litigation. The replications and tests I have been informed of from September 2013 through February 2016 are the ones on the base of which Cherokee Fund Partners-IH have collected 250 millions in UK and China. No further comment.
      Warm Regards,

Now, Rossi lies, so we cannot assume this is true. However, take it straight: Rossi did not know of the relationship with Boeing “until the litigation.” This matches Dewey’s story, this was between IH and Boeing. Then, of course, Rossi introduces his meme about $250 million from UK and China, which has, so far, no support. He continues the drumbeat about Cherokee being involved, when it has been Industrial Heat from the beginning. Yes, Darden got entree by being Cherokee principals, but Cherokee would have no business investing in Rossi. This was something Darden and Vaughn wanted to do, personally — and obviously.

Now, this is fascinating: If Rossi doesn’t know anything about the testing (probably not “demo”)  — and I would expect IH to have arranged fully independent testing, with Rossi not present, very much with Rossi not present! — then why a Protective Order motion?

This was last-minute, tacked into today’s hearing. If there is a difficult issue, I’d expect a temporary Order while they argue it.

One thing is clear from the Rossi comment, assuming he is not lying. This was not about Rossi and Boeing collaborating in some way. All that speculation was just typical Planet Rossi, as Dewey pointed out on LENR Forum:

Dewey wrote:

Bob – they’ll continue to create alternate realities as long as they possibly can. Fake news is real news on Planet Rossi.

Update, February 10, 2017:

“Darius” asked again.

February 9, 2017 at 1:34 PM
Dr Rossi, According to the source on LENRForum, IH did in fact present a ecat to Boeing and that it did not work. That would seem highly unusal that the priciple engineer was not part of such an important presentation?

Andrea Rossi
February 9, 2017 at 6:45 PM
No comment.

Rossi deletes spam and other garbage. It’s clear that, at the very least, he approves what he wants to be seen. Most observers seem to have concluded that many posts on JONP are sock puppets, i.e., Rossi himself.

Here, he makes an argument that would be typical for Rossi. How could one expect the ecat to work without Rossi being present? An easy answer: of course not, since it never has worked without Rossi Grease.

If Dewey is correct, IH asked Rossi to assist with their work to verify the technology, and Rossi refused, being too busy with the “test under way.” What Dewey has claimed now is that they asked or allowed Boeing to do their own verification. This would not be a “presentation.” Presentations are what Rossi has done for years. He’s put on a show, a “demonstration.” But what everyone sane wanted, and a real commercial effort would absolutely need, would be devices that can be made and work according to clear instructions (such as a Patent!), not with Rossi Grease.

This is so obvious that it’s a complete wonder that Rossi supporters manage to show their faces from time to time. MrSelfSustain just changed his user name on LENR Forum to THEDEBATEISUSELESS, and then dropped a LANCB message.

Rossi Motion for Protective Order

135.0_Notice_of_hearing Rossi motion for Protective Order re 3rd P defendants’ depositions. (Hearing scheduled Thursday February 9, 2017)

Plaintiffs’ Motion for Protective Order As to the Depositions of J.M. Products, Inc., United States Quantum Leap, LLC, Fulvio Fabiani, and The Boeing Company

This strikes me as quite unusual. There is a Protective Order Agreement in place. It allows a disclosing party to label disclosures (and depositions) as Protected, which are then governed by special rules. Normally, it is the disclosing party that designates material as protected. However, there is a provision that allows any party to designate material as protected. However, this motion might not be about that kind of Protective Order. It is possible that this is an attempt to prevent certain questions from being asked in depositions. An example was produced on ECW of a case where a shareholder in a plaintiff company — not a party to the dispute — was to be deposed by defendant action, and the court agreed with the plaintiff that this was way overboard intrusive, probably a fishing expedition. But we don’t know, and some people are inventing interpretations not supported by any evidence so far. Continue reading “Rossi Motion for Protective Order”

Get out of the new road if you can’t lend a hand

Among many other things, I was a folksinger, and strong in my repertoire was The Times They Are A-Changin’. The words are worth reviewing.

Yesterday, I published Age, the New Age, Believers, and Peter Gluck. It was a series of observations about LENR-Forum and the interaction there of Dewey Weaver and Peter Gluck. Dewey was frank with Peter, and Peter didn’t like it one bit. I was also frank with Peter, here, and ditto.

We are both aging, as are others, and there are some who hate being reminded of it, especially as age begins to affect how we relate to others. None of this should be any surprise. None of us get out of this place alive.

The aging of LENR scientists, and the effects of that, is a no-touch issue, and because of that, nothing is done, it being believed, apparently, that aging is like race, nothing can be done about it, so bringing it up is terminally rude. But plenty can be done, often. I have not been willing to give up. Not surprisingly, this post stirred up a shitstorm on LF. All of this reveals community dysfunction (and a few hints of function). Instead of starting a new post, I will document the response on LF: Get out of the new road. The original post, so far unedited:

Continue reading “Get out of the new road if you can’t lend a hand”

Breakdowns create breakthroughs

On LENR Forum, Rigel wrote:

Mods, a humble request. Let these words stand. Let us clean up our own mess. Strong people have strong opinions. Please

This was after some extensive flame warring and mutual recriminations, of which a small part was discussed yesterday on And now for something completely different.

Bob then did something rare enough to be remarkable. He admitted error, here and on LF.

IH Fanboy responded:

I must say, Abd is one of a kind. Looks like we have recursive forums. Perhaps someone should start a new one that critiques Abd’s, and so on, and so forth.

Thanks, IHFB. Continue reading “Breakdowns create breakthroughs”

And now for something completely different

or same old, same old. Academic discussion has a basic rule: quotations should be attributed and accurate. If paraphrasing is used, quotation marks should not be used to imply exact quotations. If words are omitted, they should be shown by ellipsis. I attempt to follow these rules, and here we see an example of what happens when one does not.

Here, there was a quotation error that was then surprisingly persistent, but eventually, the author recognized his error and corrected it, see the Update.

Continue reading “And now for something completely different”

Age, the New Age, Believers, and Peter Gluck

After the new software version was installed on LENR Forum, the number of comments per page was increased to 30. This, of course broke all incoming links to comments as paged (sometimes done when there was a series of comments of interest at some point). More about this below. In my last post, I wrote about Planet Rossi; some users protesting about being identified with Planet Rossi are objecting to it as rude. However, this is a classic case of calling a spade a spade, i.e., pointing out the obvious. “Planet Rossi” does not mean, in itself, “collection of idiots.” However, there appears to be a high density of those willing to continue expressing preposterous positions, as if they were perfectly reasonable, while objecting to others pointing this out.

Here, Peter Gluck writes in response to Dewey Weaver. This is a long-term blogger on LENR arguing with someone who has actually supported LENR research with his own money, time, and effort. I find it of interest to review. Peter is, of course, welcome to comment, even though he normally rejects detailed, evidenced comments as being too long.

Continue reading “Age, the New Age, Believers, and Peter Gluck”

Planets and world-views

I think that Dewey Weaver coined the term “Planet Rossi.” He was referring to Rossi fans, and the implication is that these have some sort of common world-view. I picked it up, because it’s a convenient and relatively non-judgmental way of referring to an obvious constellation of opinions, beliefs, memes, often traceable to Rossi Says.

Planet MrSelfSustain
IH Fanboy

Continue reading “Planets and world-views”

OMG! An *actual* conversation based on knowledge!

I saw a great post by Alain Coetmeur on lenr-forum. I looked back a little and found cogent comments from Eric Walker and H.G., but the conversation sprouted like the lotus, in muck from Axil, a Reliable Source of strong opinion using snow-blower scientific word salad. Continue reading “OMG! An *actual* conversation based on knowledge!”

I don’t care about facts, who’s right?

I’ve been writing on-line since the 1980s, on the W.E.L.L., where I was a moderator. I was excited about the possibilities of computer conferencing, where a complete record existed (normally) of the entire conversation. I had extensive group discussion experience and had noticed that people would argue about what happened previously, who had said what, and what it meant. So, here, it would be possible to resolve disputes based on fact. Or would it? Continue reading “I don’t care about facts, who’s right?”

A new edition of Rossi Blog News

The prime source of “authentic information” about Planet Rossi, for years, has been his “Journal of Nuclear Physics” blog, where he hosts papers, allegedly peer-reviewed, but then the comments are not about the papers, but about whatever relating to Rossi is brought up by various odd names, which have been shown to be likely fake, Rossi sock puppets. He doesn’t just write his opinion, and his lawyers have told him to STFU; but he has used this technique for many years and is not likely to change. Here is more “News” from JONP. Continue reading “A new edition of Rossi Blog News”

Blizzard of blogviation

Discussion on lenr-forum about the new filings shows a phenomenon often encountered: an obvious argument is brought up, and someone says that this was considered and rejected long ago. But there is no actual reference, and the fora do not actually have a decision-making mechanism, usually, so this is just an opinion. I have seen it happen that a view was advanced and essentially crushed by many responses, but what I saw today was not like that. Rather, people had mostly quite talking about it, until a new occasion arose. This is coming from the newer, grittier version of the old IH Exhibit 5, Peter Gluck’s favorite punching bag, but it is now actual data, apparently, from the … ta daaaa!!! Penon Report! “Final,” it says. Continue reading “Blizzard of blogviation”

RvD: Judge demands fast response

With regard to the IH request to amend, the Judge ordered opposing parties to file yesterday (January 30, 2017) and IH to reply by today. Oppositions were filed by attorneys for Fabiani, Johnson/Bass, and Rossi.

For us in the peanut gallery, of greatest interest are the exhibits Rossi attached. Exhibit 1 appears to be part of Penon’s Final Report.

And then IH shows daily utility usage reports, compared with Rossi’s punk monthly charges. Who knew?

The Judge approved the request. IH dodged a bullet there, I did predict the Judge would approve. In fact, she gave the reasons for not approving (as had the counterclaim defendants) … and then approved based on an assessment of “due diligence” due, I’d say, to the complexity of the Motion to Dismiss history. I would translate that to “barely adequate diligence.” She then allowed the cc defendants the statutory time for motions, however, she has firmly rejected the “failure to state a claim” argument.

Below are my comments before the Order.
Continue reading “RvD: Judge demands fast response”


Steve Krivit filed a DMCA takedown notice against content here, see Critique of articles – copyright issues. In my training — which he knows about — it is said that if you are not being shot at, you are not doing anything worth wasting ammunition on. So thanks, Steve, for the compliment. It has led me to discover hypothes.is, so I may now write a much more extensive critique of the entire NET site, and the nature of hypothes.is display is such that I will probably write briefer and more pointed critique.

It’s all good. Continue reading “Incoming!”

Fabiani on the hook again?

IH just filed a motion for leave to amend their AACT, a fourth amendment (as proposed) They attach exhibits, 28 and 29, that show that the Fabiani contract with IH was explicitly renewed, contrary to an apparent claim or misunderstanding of non-renewal that was used by the Judge to dismiss Count V, against Fabiani for Breach of Contract. Continue reading “Fabiani on the hook again?”

Why the Doral conditions matter

Industrial Heat alleges that the Doral installation was set up fraudulently, but Rossi supporters argue that all that matters is whether or not the reactor worked. If it worked, they believe, IH should pay him $89 million, because that is how they read the Agreement.

However, what was contemplated in the Agreement did not happen. The Agreement was poorly drafted, from all points of view, but was tolerated by the parties, each for their own reasons.

The terms of the Agreement for a Guaranteed Performance Test were not followed; this was replaced by the Second Amendment with something more workable, but that, too, was not followed.  Continue reading “Why the Doral conditions matter”

Blatant trolling continues to be allowed on lenr-forum

A couple of days ago I noticed a post from Zeus46, the second one below from a search of his Contributions since January 18. To be clear, this is all posts by Zeus46 from that period. These are not cherry-picked from a larger set. Conclusion (substantiated below): Lenr-forum moderation is tolerating trolling from some, including a moderator, and not from others. Here, the last six contributions of Zeus46 were trolling.  Continue reading “Blatant trolling continues to be allowed on lenr-forum”

The Other Side

Because I’ve been studying Rossi v. Darden, I often am writing about Rossi’s blatant deceptions, which have come to be more than the raving of a yellow journalist about con artists and felons, they are now clearly evidenced in presented exhibits, and, as well, in the arguments Rossi has presented in his pleadings.

However, there is another side, and today, looking at something mentioned by Dewey Weaver, I came across this 2011 video, of Sergio Focardi‘s TedX talk, that presents it, clearly. The CC button will present subtitles, for me in English. I don’t know about other languages.

May he rest in peace.

Continue reading “The Other Side”

Patent nonsense

A discussion on lenr-forum struck me. The issues raised have been raised many times, and addressed, but they keep coming back.

It’s about claims that IH has made contradictory statements about whether or not they have confirmed excess heat with Rossi devices, and about the patent they filed, why did they file a patent if the technology was useless?

Perhaps this is worth a close examination. Continue reading “Patent nonsense”