A topic appeared on LENR Forum, MFMP preparing some big announcement? In fact, the Facebook user, “Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project” is Bob Greenyer, and my training has strongly discouraged confusing individual actions and beliefs with those of a community, which MFMP is.
As is being pointed out, Greenyer has become manic.
Such collective actions are strongly to be avoided unless they enjoy very high consensus, and even then, it’s far better if an individual announce things. This blog is named Cold Fusion Community, and some original posts were by “admin.” I think I’ve cleaned all that up. I’m a trustee, and right now, there is no community restraining me (though there are plenty of communications to the end of developing genuine community.)
MFMP has been, in many ways, naive. Not uncommon with young people, eh? I met some MFMP people at ICCF-18, and I remember, I believe it was Bob Greenyer, very excited because he had figured out what Defkalion was doing, that made their reactor work. It was quite good, a very decent idea.
But the Defkalion reactor probably was not working!
But it was such a good idea!
When I was younger, I also encountered some major conspiracy theories. I remember one in particular, the fellow had proof! And it actually looked like strong evidence. Was he right? It was about the Kennedy assassination. It was at that point that I realized that it was impossible to discern the truth, without major dedication and work, and that appearances could exist for almost any theory. And that later led me to work on governmental systems that were trustworthy by design. We are far, far from this, we use archaic systems that were advances for their time, but seriously deficient compared to what is possible.
I also encountered, up close and very personal, what can be called schizophrenia. The symptoms here are unmistakable. I’m going to emphasize that this does not mean that Bob Greenyer is Wrong. Indeed, he might be seeing some realities that he is not prepared to handle. However, “not prepared to handle” means that he doesn’t have the background and depth — and support — necessary to integrate his experience without damage. He doesn’t have the training, he’s not disciplined. Yet. For his future empowerment, at this point, the best thing he could do is STFU and start learning.
The official MFMP web site seems to have nothing about any of this. That site has often had technical problems, I’m seeing quite a bit broken there.
Greenyer has discussed this on ECW. This was quickly identified there as signs of a bipolar disorder, the manic phase. Yes. Now, what are the signs, because telling someone in that state that they are crazy doesn’t work.
I’m not really sure what does work. I was told, when I was walking around in a similar state, that “they won’t let you stay this way.” I thought that person was paranoid. Who was “they,” after all? However, … I could read minds and a lot of other stuff. And everything had incredible meaning. And … they did not let me stay that way, I was picked up, charged with crimes I had not committed, and put into jail and, there, I went, let’s say, all the way out, and was transported to a mental hospital where the most effective treatment was probably feeding me dry mashed potatoes, which gave me constipation. That got my attention! Brought me right down.
Now, what about what I’d been seeing? Was it real? Some of it! In fact, one of the best stories in my life was what happened in the drunk tank when they were waiting to book me. A genuine miracle. (I tell the story and people agree.) And, I’m sure, it really happened. It doesn’t involve anything so terribly odd, except it was merely not what we normally expect. Yet I was also not in what could be called survival mode. I wasn’t taking care of myself — at all. And I was talking to some people with what they were not at all ready to hear or understand. It took many years before I was able to be more effective. And real training, powerful and clear and reliable? Only quite recently.
Some videos were linked:
This is not marginal. I don’t wonder that Timar wrote:
Bob Greenyer wrote:
I have not lost my mind – I have no intention to shoot myself twice in the back of the head or have a untimely heart attack. Love life.
I had a close relative with mania. He might say exactly the same thing, out of the blue. Who mentioned anything about shooting himself, much less “twice in the head”? Do people shoot themselves twice in the head? Kinda hard, eh? “Untimely heart attack”? How would that be arranged? Now, he may have thought that he would turn up shot in the head twice. Or that he might be given some drug to cause a “heart attack.” Those things actually exist, cross certain people, it’s quite possible. However, those who have these tools and inclinations don’t deploy them to kill crazy people. That would be …. crazy! Unnecessary, is a better term.
I mentioned, recently, “if they aren’t shooting at you, it’s because you are not doing anything worth wasting bullets on.” That was considered some proof of megalomania on my part. So far, I’m not being shot at, so what does that mean? The actual training in transformation: it’s all meaningless, but to someone who is manic, everything is intense with meaning. Mania might as well be called “meania.” This intense “meaning” takes over the mind, and it can be as intoxicating as it is dangerous. This is not to be confused with creating purpose and fulfilling purpose. That is also dangerous, but it creates a life worth living, and isn’t characterized by a sense of evil and fear and sweaty urgency.
The purpose of my whole life came to a head yesterday when – against the protestations of some present, I gave the presentation I wanted at the technical university in Mumbai, India – from the heart and which has been revealed to me in the most punishing series of sleepless nights.
“the purpose of my whole life came to a head yesterday.” Yes. Mania.
“punishing series of sleepless nights.” Yes. That’s how it can start. Sleeplessness. Other factors can increase it: not eating. Dehydration. But the strongest factor is probably the attraction of finally understanding everything. It all fits together!
How do we know that? I think it’s brain chemistry, the “mechanism of meaning.”
I have shared the key components of how to ensure high excess – but the implications are going to shock you all more than I think you can handle – I need you all to video with your phones the (RedPill) video when it goes up.
As I read this, he thinks that the video will be super important, and that the Enemy will take it down. So if many people copy it immediately, he can still get this Very Important Message through. Notice, “shock you more than I think you can handle.” How would he know that? Perhaps he has been so shocked, and, yes, he couldn’t handle it.
However, the etiology of this might be more boring than that. Why would one inflict ideas on people that they can’t handle? Just to torture them\?. Just so that when that Destructor Beam or whatever takes their office apart, they can, in their last moment, think, “Bob Greenyer was right!”???
Bob hasn’t had time to think this all the way through. He is reacting to his own state, without experience, without a guide, and someone at that conference tried to tell him, to warn him, and, of course, he didn’t listen.
There was an old man in the room, who I had never seen before and not heard of – he looked amazed at what I was saying – at the end he pulled me over and demanded to speak to me today. That led to my visiting his facility – I have got mind blowing footage for you all – suffice to say – we have now at least 4 working technologies on 3 continents – 3 of which have been funded by the inventors themselves and 2 of which I believe are about ready to deploy – the MFMP must verify them for COP claims and Safety first before final judgement.
I have amazing stories to tell from my youth, when I was walking around in that state. Some of it has become clear to me, some not. The man who told me “they won’t let you stay this way” was right, and he did know what I was talking about, and did recognize my state. He’d had some training! I was totally undisciplined, totally unprepared, and it’s amazing that I came through it alive, and I can also explain that, there are a couple of things I did right, very right, in the midst of my insanity, that then set up the rest of my life. Bob Greenyer may actually have seen some real technology. Now, what does this have to do with the Red Pill and the other crazy stuff?
But the warnings I give are absolutely sincere – not a joke and you will know why.
I don’t for a moment think he is joking. In fact, if he could joke it might be a path forward for him. Absolutely, he needs to understand how he will be seen. If he can get how crazy this is, and laugh about it, — even if he thinks We Are All Gonna Die!!! — or whatever — he will have more than half of what he needs to move on and integrate all this. One way to describe existence is as a joke that God created, and getting the joke is a truly great experience.
Dods – this could not have happenned without you. You are going to LOVE the footage I shot today – 240fps slow motion of the plasma and the cavitation. Thing of real beauty – the guy is such an engineering genius and said repeatedly that right here, e-cat world, was his main resource.
I did look at the videos. Meaningless. No communication, other than Somebody is Doing Something that Looks Cool. However, if you know what it means, it is probably absolutely spectacular! Again, characteristic of mania: great meaning in something that has no intrinsic meaning. The person gives someone a piece of wood they found. It’s the secret of the universe. To them, of course, it is! But not to the person they gave it to.
MFMP. Is this new work going to accomplish the memorialization, the rehabilitation of the memory of Martin Fleischmann? Or is it going, effectively, to discredit MFMP and by reflection, Fleischmann?
Bob says that he was atheist, and no longer. Classic, again, onset of mania associated with a conversion experience.
He wants to “fight evil,” but if so, he hasn’t gotten the actual message, “resist not evil.” Establish justice, yes! — but that is not “fighting against evil,” and when it is, it creates evil. That’s what the evil people do, fight evil! Favorite trick of Satan. Kill the Witches!
The real message is one of peace, the establishment of peace, and it creates peace and freedom and brings humanity together. There are, indeed, enemies, but …. they have no power except a little, for a time. This is all an ancient message, it is not new.
Cults identify evil and fight it. Scientology, case in point. Of course, because they are fighting evil, whatever they do is then justified by necessity. At the core of Scientology is some real technology, it actually works, at least the beginning levels do. But Scientology believes in Good and Evil.
Now, what does this have to do with cold fusion? If cold fusion “believers” were falling into blatant mania like this frequently, it might have some implications. Greenyer might be somewhat more vulnerable from taking on a fringe science, which can involve setting aside “standard expectations,” but I can’t think of another example as extreme as what he is now showing, not even close. There are some old men showing signs of normal dementia, and that’s controversial. There are some highly reactive individuals who might sue or threaten to sue at the drop of a wrong word. This has gone well beyond that.
I hope that Bob will recognize his state, it is not that hard. I say this to him:
Bob, you have seen some things. What you have seen that is real will not disappear if you release your attachment to the significance of it all. What is real does not go away when we detach. “Good” and “evil” are profoundly attached.
We are all going to die, that’s a given, it is inevitable. Yes, there is this concept of eternal life, and that’s fine, but if you think that someone can “steal” the eternal life of another, you have attached to a very weird concept of God and reality. That eternal life is earned by what we do, or it is a gift from eternity to us (or both). It cannot be stolen by another, no matter how evil they try to be.
Trust that, and that trust has a guarantee behind it, and God will not fail in his trust. The only risk to us is in what we, ourselves create. If you are creating fear, that might befall you!
If a tree is about to fall on someone, show them or pull them out of the way. That is not creating fear, that is creating caring.
Ask to be shown more. That’s the real Red Pill: Reality. It is not bitter, it is sweet.
On LENR Forum, MagicSound wrote:
And please keep in mind that Bob’s “Red Pill” thesis is not being presented by or on behalf of MFMP, nor is it endorsed by those of us who make up the working group.
Aw, Dewey Weaver. That’s not going to be popular on LENR Forum. Apparently, though, DW DGAF. Remarkable: DW is more or less the gatekeeper for millions of dollars in LENR research funding. The refrain has been Go Away, Dewey, We Don’t Like You!
Now, he’s been pointing out that LENR Forum is “amateur hour,” for quite some time. We imagine that we are at the cusp of a new age of energy, but at the same time, we are playing with toy soldiers and toy ideas.
Suppose there really is a “secret government” with Very Bad Weapons. I figured this out fifty years ago: if they want me dead, I’m dead. Get over it. It would take governmental-level resources to stop that, and even they can fail. So what then? What is worth doing, given that the MiB (yes, that’s come up in this discussion) would hardly know that I exist. Yeah, there used to be an FBI file on me, but nothing worth wasting bullets on.
I decided to behave as if the MiB don’t exist. If they shoot me, well, I’m a canary, revealing that something is off. There were bomb threats years ago, but no bombs showed up. (I got a post office box at San Quentin, California, a fun place to visit, for that reason.)
Anyway, if one does want to confront this Secret Government, first would be to actually study the idea, assuming it is real. Is the first step, creating a video screaming about them? Why do I think this is a really dumb idea? No, the first step would be to set up secure communications, a relatively bulletproof network. That is difficult enough!
Now, MFMP is an explicitly amateur project. I always look at control systems. Who — or what process — is in charge of MFMP? Common in amateur efforts: one person who holds the keys. That this person might go, ah, seriously astray, does not even occur as a possibility, so, of course, they are not ready for it. Bob Greenyer is apparently the Facebook User “Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project.” Who runs the web site?
Oh, dear. Robert Greenyer. Basic rule for what I call Free Associations: many independent communication channels, so that nobody can control all of them. But, ah, they never asked…. I liked mailing lists, normally configured, because (1) they are free or very cheap, (2) the mails contain the actual email addresses of all who post, so the list owner cannot completely dominate, because anyone can then directly mail any of those members.
At this point, MFMP seems to have been caught flat-footed.
In a Free Association, nobody speaks for the Association, without massive consensus, and even then it is probably a bad idea. People speak for themselves, and perhaps there is a meeting and someone reports on it. Using their own name, not pretending to speak for the organization, again, unless specifically authorized by consensus.
Right now, I look at Facebook and at Quantum Heat, and it’s Greenyer-dominated.
So new? Well, here is a Greenyer video, Knowledge of the Ancients, put up by Homosymbion, i.e., Greenyer. This video was made about the Padmanabhaswamy temple. Greenyer tells a story about the temple being extraterritorial, i.e., not belonging to the state of Kerala. However, it does appear to be under the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court of India, which somewhat contradicts Greenyer’s story — which may have some historical accuracy, but may also not imply what he makes from this.
(The Greenyer story of extraterritoriality doesn’t match those accounts. Rather, the temple treasure does “belong to the god.” And then the god is legally a “perpetual minor,” i.e., to be protected by the state.
Now, what is the Knowledge of the Ancients, here? Greenyer recounts some of the story, then says “It makes you wonder what these great ancient civilizations knew?” This is apparently connected with the palace of the former King being made of wood. To Greenyer, this has vast significance. So, that the King lived in a wooden palace, not a gold one, shows what knowledge? How to protect against a weapon that didn’t exist?
He starts the video with, about the Temple, “this is the safest place on Earth right now.” Then he laughs and says, “No, I’m not crazy.”
Until Greenyer knows that “Greenyer” is an illusion, he’s crazy, Most of us are, most of the time. The “Red Pill” is allegedly the “bitter” or “painful” truth. But truth is not painful, and this is actual ancient wisdom: it is attachment that is painful. Not reality, reality is freedom and even bliss. In my early twenties I amazed a friend by declaring that “nirvana does not exist.” But it obviously does not exist, because if it existed, it would be subject to beginning and end. Rather, it does exist, but not in what we would ordinarily call “existence.”
“And I ask, most mysteriously, are the birds free from the chains of the skyway.” Dylan was who he was because he was asking ancient questions. Greenyer, now, is getting a taste of what is beyond the ordinary, but it is a struggle and even a torment for him, because he has not abandoned attachment, he still has visions of “good and evil,” and he is obsessed, which is nothing less than being attached to ideas, thoughts, the conditional, rather than the unconditional.
At this point, probably more than anything else, he’ll need to rest. He will need simplicity.
On E-Cat World, Frank Acland tries valiantly to create some restraint and focus, opening a new thread on the Red Pill.
Bob Greenyer refused to follow Acland’s rules. (or called it “impossible.” I.e., … compulsion.)
Frank I love you to bits. It is impossible for me to engage on that restriction in this matter – they are intrinsically linked.
He uses much language betraying obsession: “astounding,” “desperate,” i.e., supposedly, if one has found The Truth, one becomes desperate to share it.
In fact, reality is right here, with us now, and obvious, if we look. Someone desperate to share it doesn’t see reality, but a distorted reflection of some piece of it. I see this, it’s fairly common for people who come into contact with genuine training to become a bit unbalanced for a while. Occasionally a lot unbalanced. Religious converts are often far more fanatic than people born into a faith, or who have long experience and deep knowledge of it
The signs of reality are patience, clarity, peace, fearless action, trust in reality itself rather than ideas about it, humility (knowing that what we know is only very little compared with possibility).
Dewey is right, this is revealing much about the community, on all sides. There are some who are telling Greenyer what they see, clearly and with no blame. And others who are feeding the flames.
Update1 March 7, 2017
TWITTER. Mathieu Valat: (scientific advisor to the MFMP)
Mathieu @mateMathieu Mar 3
Sad day for the MFMP.
Mathieu provides no clue to what he is talking about. We can guess, but …. Open Science is meaningless if process is not open. MFMP process has long been obscure.
FACEBOOK. Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project. No comments questioning BG representing himself as MFMP. BG is using his MFMP position and apparent control of the Facebook account to promote the work of non-MFMP projects. This was not the purpose of MFMP, though MFMP never really became clear about the purpose. Operationally, it was to choose and facilitate replication projects.
To BG, this is of high and very sweaty importance. He has long had this edge, the intensification is not surprising.
QUANTUM HEAT, the official MFMP web site.
All these were posted by Bob Greenyer. Most MFMP pages, however, do not show an Author.
Earthtech International site: http://earthtech.org/
Hunt Utilities Group site: http://www.hugllc.com
Mathieu Valat (no web site)
Permanetix Corporation site: http://www.permanetixcorp.com/ Nikita Alexandrov
Corresponding author: Valat. Other authors: Greenyer, Hunt. Greenyer’s address is that of Bistro Franz. It is a multi-story building, but great place to live! Makes me hungry.
First think I notice is that the title has been changed, to ” Who did that? Looking at the first post, by Hans Moog, I see
Did anybody realize that
MFMP [Bob Greenyer] posted a very cryptic announcement on their [MFMP’s] Facebook page?
Now, strike-out (and bracketed insertion) is the standard way to update a post that contains some error or to reflect an updated opinion, if something new has been revealed or realized. So did Hans Moog correct his mistake?
Probably not. The post shows, in smalltext at the bottom: an edit notice.
The post was edited 1 time, last by barty: additional information provided ().
Speaking personally, I do not appreciate administrators and moderators changing what I’ve written without my consent. The LF habit of greening offensive text is acceptible, because it does not alter the text. The habit of deleting offensive text is more toward the edge, but arguable. Changing text without making it clear who did it and why is beyond the pale, in my view, and deleting posts was a step beyond that, and my protest is the obvious reason I was banned. The “team” very much wants to do this, and while there may be team members who don’t want it and might oppose it, they clearly tolerate it.
To the point, was this an “MFMP announcement”? On the face, it was. It used the official MFMP Facebook page to promote the announcement. It is part of a series of posts to the official web site that can be seen as leading up to it.
I’m always interested in power structures, i.e., how are collective decisions made? Mostly organizations are set up by people naive about what actually happens in organizations over time, so they take no precautions, assuming that everyone will get along fine and there will be no problems, because we are all friends, right? And then when problems do appear, there are no protective structures in place. It is not difficult to set those up, and this is a technology that was first demonstrated about 1940, with Alcoholics Anonymous. Bill Wilson the “co-founder,” but actually the architect, studied previous organization and what had led to their lack of effectiveness, long-term, and designed the “Traditions” to avoid that. It worked, spectacularly, there is essentially no competition to AA, because it incorporates possible competition!
That can be covered elsewhere. Here, MFMP appears to depend centrally on three people: Greenyer, Valat, and Hunt. Greenyer has spoken and acted. Valat has only made a vague noise about “a sad day.” And Hunt? Where is Hunt in all this?
Many threads on LENR Forum are started with errors. Why is this one changed in such a way? It appears to me that an administrator is protecting MFMP. Why not protect, say, Industrial Heat? Or Rossi, for that matter?
Without clear guidelines for moderators and administrators, these things will happen, and they will not get better, I’d predict. Some sites simply die as a result. Some hobble on, a pale imitation of what they might be were they to create genuine consensus structures. The core of LENR Forum is probably one person, the Owner, and LF dysfunction would likely be traceable to him, because he is the one with the power to fix it. How would he do that? Let me point out that it would start simply by recognizing the issues, instead of stonewalling them. There are solutions, but they are not likely to appear immediately to those without experience. So, again, it starts with asking and then listening to answers, proposing solutions, discussing them, and then making final choices, to stand until review. Knee-jerk, abrupt, ad-hoc, reactive decisions don’t help if allowed to stand without reveiw.
Meanwhile, what else do we know? Greenyer’s condition is obvious and has become more obvious. While we are on LF coverage:
Magicsound wrote: (March 1, 10:31 pm)
Take it easy guys. This will be a VERY strictly moderated thread.
And please keep in mind that Bob’s “Red Pill” thesis is not being presented by or on behalf of MFMP, nor is it endorsed by those of us who make up the working group.
And who would that be and how would we know? BG has been presenting ideas for a long time that may not have been “MFMP ideas.” Or were they? It looks like BG ran the web site, and the Facebook page. MFMP allowed this to happen. Therefore MFMP is responsible. Who is “MFMP”? I’ve shown the three facilitators. I have seen no declared structure, however. Here, we see “Magicsound” representing the “working group.” Through what process? How do they meet? And … if this is Live Open Science, is the decision-making process for MFMP public?
(In my overall structural view of what I’ve called Free Associations, decisions are made by executives, chosen in small groups or even representing only themselves, responsible to those whom they serve. In a Free Association, nobody actually speaks for the Association, but may report consensus from a group. What BG is doing would be immediately recognized as “outside enterprises.” However, Free Associations do not take positions on these,” Essentially, they avoid any organizational endorsement of anything controversial. They exist to connect, purely, and provide mutual support for “communication, cooperation, and coordination,” the latter always being voluntary. They do not collect unallocated funds, to avoid conflicts over money. MFMP has violated a number of these, perhaps. The penalty for violation is possible organizational failure.)
So who is the “working group”? It would seem that Magicsound is a member. Science depends, very much, on personal integrity. Science is not anonymous. Someone anonymous can suggest an experiment, but anonymous reports require identified confirmation, and not merely “I think this is good.” Very much, this would be like anonymous testimony in a court. Not admissible. Ever. (However, exceptions exist which require disclosure in camera, and this is very much not the norm, and personal presence would be required, to the decision-makers — i.e., judge and/or jury.)
Is Magicsound a “volunteer”? Is this “Dr. Bob”? Reading that bio, it’s obvious that MFMP is not a serious project. It’s adolescent play and joking. Yes, there are real possibilities there, but … I’m not seeing adult supervision. (Or, more appropriately, connection with and respect for those who have more experience.) I know that major LENR figures offered to help MFMP and were rejected. We will see, below, Greenyer’s manic take on established researchers. That would exist within a community running near the edge. Being “open,” MFMP is quite vulnerable to this. Mania can lead to high activity levels, and most mania is not so visible as what has befallen BG.
The MFMP user on Facebook would be Greenyer, which should never have been allowed without safeguards. The web site, QuantumHeat, has an administrative address
Admin Name: Admin QH
Admin Organization: Quantum Heat
[Admin address redacted per comment below]
Who is that? What is “Quantum Heat”? Most likely, an unincorporated association, but who represents it? Who is responsible for it? There is a quantumheat.co.uk. Not them.
At this point, there are three people who have an official role with MFMP: Greenyer, Valat, Hunt. Has Greenyer explicitly denied representing MFMP? If so, why is he still using the Facebook page to point to his stuff? If not, why have not any recognized MFMP members posted to either the Facebook page or the QH web site with a clarification? If there is a problem with control of MFMP communications mechanisms, openness would require confronting it ASAP. Free Associations can function in the presence of extensive attack, if members recognize the problem of control and resist it. So, far, I have only seen Valat’s vague Twitter comment, essentially meaningless, and then Magicsound, which does not immediately translate to MFMP official. I think that Magicsound is Alan Goldwater, but how would someone know this? And how does Alan come to speak for the “working group.” He would be a member, I’d assume, and may know something, but he is not specific. “We (who?) met on Wednesday in a conference call and decided to dissociate ourselves from BG’s announcements.”
On what did Barty base his change to the original post? Rumor? Or something stronger? We don’t know, because LF moderation has a strong habit of not explaining itself with any clarity.
This could all be quite useful if the lessons are recognized and used in future projects.
There is a magicsound.us web site, with a paper hosted on MFMP, written by Alan Goldwater. Then there is an Infinite Energy article, written by Goldwater, Hunt, and Greenyer. It mentions “Bob from New Mexico.” That would be, I’d assume, Bob Higgins.
MFMP is soliciting money. When we give money, we usually want to know who will control it, or what process. This requires knowing the control or power structure. The Donation page is Paypal, there is no statement of who or what account this will go to. The request is signed “The Facilitators.” I.e., Greenyer, Hunt, Valat. However, the web site is almost certainly owned by Greenyer, the U.K. address telegraphs that.
Unless something else appears, I would assume that sending money to MFMP is essentially sending money to Greenyer. (If this is incorrect, this could easily be corrected.)
.Fourty-Two wrote: So, don’t be surprised when people mistake this “(RedPill)” stuff as a MFMP activity
One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don’t do anything at all
Suddenly Alan doesn’t know how to use the quote facility on LF? (here is the post by Forty-Two) … and makes a joke about what’s happening?
It crossed my mind by 2014. I guess some of us are a bit slow. (Actually, it is very easy to overlook these details. My guess is that it is all informal and that there is someone who signs on the account that Paypal deposits the money in. And I would guess that his initials are BG, but this could be incorrect…. Other funds are directly spent by the supporter of a particular project. In a Free Association, the central “treasury” would never hold much money, (being limited to a “prudent reserve,” which is simply enough to cover shutdown expenses, which would be very small for an organization like MFMP) and large donations would not be accepted. This was all worked out by the middle of the last century. But who pays attention to what former generations accomplished?) Few do. So they are condemned to repeat history without realizing it.
Alan Smith points out that there is an “MFMP member” in the Forum “best placed to answer this.” And why would the answer depend on what a single member might state? This is all making clear just how unclear it all is.
There was then a mind-boggling sequence in which Rends closes the thread, Alan states it will remain closed until there are “scientific findings” to discuss, and then Barty opens it because there are videos that provide no scientific information, just unintelligible waste of time.
Notice that it was suggested that Magicsound (probably) could answer the questions, but then moderator action would have made it impossible. There are ways to handle thread shutdown that still leave a pathway open. Nobody on LF seems to even realize the possibility. The software probably doesn’t make it easy, but there are ways around that.
From 20:55 there’s some information about me356From 49:15 … it gets interesting
Bob Greenyer: “Everything Rossi says is true. And this why Industrial Heat has been trying to destroy the MFMP. […] And I know they (sic: IH) are in the CIA. […] I know the CIA want that technology, they are trying to get it. […] You see all is connected, they are trying to destroy this, every single day.”
And much more…
Indeed. David Fojt wrote a response, “That’s right!” He’s kidding, right?
Barty quotes Bob Greenyer, then adds:
So Greenyer just pretended it? :/:?:
The penalty for a lack of ontological sophistication — or simply not paying attention — is terminal cluelessness. Someone who is manic is not “pretending.” Rather, they have an association engine with a broken governor. They believe it all, intensely, because … OMG! It all fits!
Comments about me356 are also transcribed by can.
As I recall, can is generally a Planet Rossi troll, but transcriptions are, if done with reasonable care, helpful. He gets lots of points for it.
However, this is all Greenyer reporting what me356 told him and has no more probative value than the rest of the anonymous comments. Greenyer is not, here, acting as an eyewitness to anything but some kind of conversation. Email?
There is plenty of mishegas in the thread, I’m skipping over much.
Alan Smith points to the “informal AMA” with BG. He doesn’t mention that it is almost six hours of unedited work. No way would I listen to even a fraction of that, unless someone points me to a specific point in it. BG wanted people to save his videos to their phones. So a 6 hour video, which somewhat locks up my computer on the LF Page, and then says “Watch this video on Youtube. Playback on other sites has been disabled by the video owner,” is useful how? To see Greenyer fumbling and stumbling?
At some point I will get to this, so why not now? Let’s suppose that Greenyer is right. What then? He is putting his family in danger by shooting off his mouth. Because he looks crazy, he’s not going to help, but he probably thinks there is value in “telling the truth,” except that what he is conveying is not truth but a complex interpretation, that he imagines is simple. He gets the facts wrong, not surprising when one is obsessed.
If there is the massive conspiracy that he believes exists, to counter this would take a massive conspiracy, with discipline. It would not announce its existence from the rooftops, and on YouTube. So if there is a Rebel Alliance, it would go nowhere near Bob. And there is substantial danger if he should happen to reveal something real that is an important asset to the Empire. He will be of no value to his family, nor to the cause of truth, nor of LENR, dead. He has prepared the way, by deliberately appearing crazy — as he wrote — for him to vanish or die mysteriously.
And if it is not real, the conspiracy, then he is harming the cause that he attempted to serve, open science, he is making it look completely crazy. So, Bob, STFU!!!
Those who know don’t talk. He gives lip service to Ancient Knowledge, but actually ignores it.
can did some more transcription. In addition to the comment about IH and MFMP above, he has, starting at 49:15 of (RedPill) | Breaking — a few minor corrections I make in brackets.
[49:15] Bob Greenyer: […] and everything Rossi says is true. This is why Industrial Heat is trying to destroy the MFMP. Because everything else they can walk along, and give them a bit of money and say: “actually, you know: you’re doing some great research, but why don’t you do this and this?” – just what they’ve been trying to do to our researchers. And I know they’re in the CIA, because other people have told me.
Kenneth Shoulders worked at Stanford Research International for 11 years. With all the [Michael] McKubre and Edmund Storms… the only person he respects in the entire LENR community is Edmund Storms. Kenneth Shoulders, he says that in one of the videos.
And then he went to work at – this where it got really weird for me – he went to work with Harold Puthoff and Stewart Little in Texas EarthTech. And everytime we’ve had a result at the MFMP, Marissa Little from EarthTech writes to us and says: “Oh, you saw a gamma pulse out from your Celani wire in 2013. Can we send you a… help you get a sodium iodide [detector] so we can see what the signal is?” and then we ran the reactor in Padua in ICCF19 and they say: “Oh, you’ve been running this Parkhomov fuel from Parkhomov? You’ve received from Parkhomov for 30 days… 15 days… can you send us some of the ash so we can analyze it?”. And then I said I got an agreement with… what you call it… Vysotskii… calling over to do the biological transmutation for nuclear waste remediation – Cesium-137 etc. – And I know that the CIA want [that]technology. They’ve tried to get it. I spent 5 hours at ICCF20 speaking to someone… who was trying to first dissuade me the previous night and then trying to “nurture” me. But for Earthtech they just came out with “Oh, we can help you with that experiment”. Oh, I bet you can! Cause I know he works with… you see how it’s all connected? They are trying to destroy this every single day. And you know what? This is the coup de grâce, right here.
[51:26] Audience: But the point is, forgetting everything else, why haven’t we succeeded building a [successful] reactor [for LENR] ?
Bob Greenyer: Because it’s constantly being crushed.
Audience: But you are… the…
Bob Greenyer: I’m telling you where I got to in last couple of weeks. Everything I knew before then was/is a waste of time, which is why had to really fight these guys to tell you what the truth is. So, the coup de grâce is this. About this length on the table, Pons and Fleischmann… there’s a guy and he sits down and he says: “Right, should we decide if cold fusion exists?” and he puts his hand up. “Anyone else wants to vote?” and they all kind of put their hand up apart from one guy. You know what? The same person that’s trying to destroy Judy Wood’s career? Is the same person who put his hand up, to destroy Pons and Fleischmann. So, the project I set up to clear the name of Pons and Fleischmann has now, has to clear Judy Wood.
It continues, even worse. Every major conspiracy theory is assumed to be true. “You don’t need proof, the World Trade Center came down.”
“Science” is completely buried in what has happened to BG in the “last couple of weeks.” All the work that he was perhaps respected for, or at least given the benefit of the doubt, was a “waste of time.” Rather, now he knows “the truth.” This is what mania looks like. I’ve known high functioning manics. It’s deadly. One of them was assassinated, over religious issues. What he died for was an error, but he’d promoted it with great effort and courage. After he was assassinated, I tried to confirm what he’d found, to honor his memory. It vanished when examined carefully. It was mania, and, looking back, my last conversation with him revealed it, but … we are very reluctant to conclude this about a friend who seems otherwise quite sane. The mania was hidden, it took quite some time digging to bring it out. Underneath all the reasons and logic and evidence was raw belief in a special revelation, to him. He knew he was right, and he’d give ten reasons, and then, underneath it was, at the end, even if every reason was shown to be defective, one by one, he knew because God told him. I wish I’d known then what I know how. I’d have asked him lots of curious questions! Instead, I was simply boggled. But I still thought, at that time, that what he had discovered was real. I had, in fact, depended on that!
Confirmation bias can be a killer.
This has come to be common: Alan Smith uses his privileged position as a moderator to push his own views. What Dewey wrote doesn’t stop anyone from “drawing their own conclusions,” and what Alan is doing is attempting to stop Dewey from expressing his thoughts. However, there is no edit notice. My guess is that LF moderators can suppress such notices.
(As is common, Dewey isn’t clear. What list? That would have been a useful question to ask, perhaps. I could guess, but so could others, and some of the guesses might be hostile.)
So, say I have some theory considered fringe, based on evidence I want to present, that I consider conclusive. How to go about it? How about having a personal web site that calls itself the Journal of [the fringe] research, and on the home page, have a two hour video. Great idea! Let’s do it! I could surely ramble on for two hours, I do it all the time on the phone. Then we can put it on the home page of ColdFusionCommunity.net, so that users’ browsers bog down when they look at it. That way only the highly motivated elite will persist. Who wants to talk to a bunch of conformist idiots anyway?
(bicijn shows a photo sequence purporting to show a steel beam disintegrating into dust. Looking into this, I saw many videos of that beam coming down. It falls, leaving behind a lot of dust, but the beam itself can be seen within that dust cloud, still solid, merely falling within the cloud. This was pointed out by other 9/11 conspiracy theorists, I found it first, with links to all those videos, but it is also covered on this page, specifically.
BG mentions Judy Wood, in a comment that will be understood by hardly anyone, surely his audience would not have been up to speed on Wood and the Hutcheson Effect, and other ancient history we used to look at Back Then. I suspect that the “non-voter” in that very ancient image (I’m suspecting of the APS meeting in Baltimore) must have written something about Dr. Judy. Therefore CIA.
Basically, the cluelessness BG demonstrates is of his audience and what can be communicated, and how what he is saying will be received. He knows he will look crazy, that much is clear, but what is the purpose? He seems to be thinking that there will be some immediate disaster, and everyone should stay away from buildings of metal and glass, because they will be vaporized. And, of course, this is connected with the huge gold hoard at that temple in india and that the king that protected that lived in a wooden house. Proof!!!! And this is exactly what passes for proof when one is manic, and if someone is manic but still has a functioning mind, that can be recognized. I.e., “I’m crazy, therefore I need to be careful.” That is a choice, and does not involve denying the “visions” seen. Rather, it can allow them to be more deeply understood, and this isn’t likely to happen in a couple of weeks. Again, BG, STFU! From the Haight in ’68: May the Baby Jesus Shut Your Mouth and Open Your Mind.
Barty does explain in the thread why he changed the name, and he also moved it to the “Trash” forum.
Very few people read LF using the forums, but use Latest Posts and Unread Posts if registered. In fact, if one blocks a user, they still show up in those lists. I just looked at the Forum unregistered and the thread is #2 in latest posts. That move was useless. Barty earlier unclosed the thread that Rends had closed (with Alan Smith approval) because of the “science” videos — that showed nothing. The long-established habit, and it was well in place by around a year ago: don’t ask and discuss before making major changes, just make them. We Are The Staff.
However, Barty’s explanation refers to “other MFMP members” having “distanced themselves.” So far, only Magicsound. The definition of “MFMP member” is vague. Yes, Alan Goldsmith is certainly a major figure. Valat didn’t say anything clearly, and I’ve seen nothing from Hunt, nor from Bob Higgins. But I’m still looking around. Maybe on ECW. Which I discovered as a quasi-official place for information on MFMP to be found. Have they no shame?
I started to look at ECW. The Red Pill thread was closed after over 400 comments in three days…. ECW can be very difficult to read, and a thread with 400 comments is ridiculous there. So I still don’t know if any other “MFMP member” showed up to disown the affiliation.