Tobias

Registered 10:46, 12 April 2019, Tobias is the currently active Oliver Smith account on RationalWiki. Many prior accounts were blocked, before or after Tobias started up.

User page was deleted but was archived. Obviously sarcastic, but intended to reinforce later claims that other admissions were also sarcastic. Hypothes.is Annotation of page. See admission of trolling.

Let’s go back and look at Oliver accounts. Aeschylus created quite a splash.

(See Oliver desperate). Oliver requested that pages he had created be deleted. He’s being sued. But instead of simply admitting that, as the original author, he had been creating articles out of a vendetta against Emil Kirkegaard — and nearly everyone associated with Kirkegaard), he simply requested deletion because he was in legal trouble. In other words, a doomed request, because Rats would dig in their heels, not realizing the extent to which Oliver had warped RatWiki for his purposes.) Aeschylus was blocked.

Roberts was a Smith brother, probably Oliver. Blocked as probably Mikemikev. Obviously not.

Edward Dutton was created by Octo (Oliver). [blocked 22:01, 21 April 2019 as Aeschylus]. Edits by:

  • 6857 (probable Oliver) [blocked 15:02, 9 April 2019 as sock, having attacked a Mikemikev sock]
  • SimonandSimon [blocked 21:13, 17 April 2019 for “ban evasion, Smith]
  • Tobias

Tobias created:

Nathan_Cofnas

Venom commented on Talk: Nathan Cofnas with Smith agenda links, but probably is not Oliver. Blocked for ban evasion. But ban of whom?

Greenrd argued with Tobias on the Talk page and there was revert warring by Tobias.

21:33, 25 April 2019‎ Tobias edited the Coop. The edits were hidden. They attacked Greenrd, outing him; his immediate offense? Arguing with Tobias on Nathan Cofnas . This is what the Smiths do. If any editor argues with them, they scour the internet for information about the user and present it in the worst possible light, and Oliver, schizophrenic, will imagine much worse than most of us, and may, in fact, fully believe what he imagines is fact.

The filing was redacted and moved to Talk:Nathan Cofnas. On that page, Tobias continued with standard Oliver behavior, crowing about Noah Carl being dismissed from Oxford, as part of a flap that Oliver created. Yes, “mainstream journalists agreed” but, in fact, what I’ve seen was effectively quotation of RatWiki, including highly inflammatory claims that Oliver is being sued over. Some “mainstream journalism” is sloppy and lazy.

Oliver complains:

Its funny that I’m often attacked across the internet for my activities as “lying” when everything I say on RationalWiki is accurate, well-sourced and backed up independently by other people, including mainstream journalists.Tobias (talk) 03:32, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Oliver has claimed schizophrenia, which could indicate that he will “see” inferences from evidence that are far from likely. If someone else glances at that evidence, without looking at context, etc., they may well “see” the same. If so, then, Oliver is not “lying” when he claims these things, he believes them. Oliver has written things that a reasonable person would know were false, such as what I cover on WikipediaSucks on Oliver Smith.

Colloquially, he “lied.” But he is not a reasonable person, and he shows no signs of changing his behavior, he is immediately suspicious and acts on suspicions that are far from clear. It can be predicted that he will continue to disrupt RatWiki . . . even if this account is blocked. He has been blocked many times on many sites, and just creates more socks. I have yet to enumerate all I have found.

Tobias says that once Greenrd is banned, he can write an article on him. Again, that is what they have been doing for years. Why should he stop now?

Desysop & ban, then I can create an article on Mr. Green. He’s very similar to Nathan Cofnas. Do we really want hereditarians/racialists as editors, let alone sysops? From what I’ve already found about Green (since he uses the same username across internet), he’s an absolute nutjob. You can find him posting about his support for eugenics on Reddit and he’s in the same HBDcircle as people like Cofnas, Noah CarlHbdchick etc. Tobias (talk) 13:21, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

And Tobias is not a nutjob? This page — from a very right-wing publication, anonymous author, but a legally responsible organization (VDARE, unlike RatWiki) — covers Oliver.

Clear difference: Green is open about his identity. Tobias is now so thoroughly outed that he can’t pretend with an account like Tobias, but it is still difficult to research hundreds of accounts!

(And when one does, of course, and reports it, the Smiths claim “impersonation.” Lies! Even though impersonation is preposterous, in most cases that matter.)

See the Reddit discussion of that VDARE article. It was bombarded with trollsocks, over a hundred comments, most repeating the same thing over and over. This is Smith behavior, attempting to bury anything critical of them with noise and also with lies and deceptions repeated under many different names, that’s classical sock puppetry. (There were many other trollsocks created at this time, commenting on threads that other trollsocks had created about me, about Dysklyver, about Mikemikev. They blame it on me or on Mikemikev, as they have blamed many others in the past.

(As we will see, Oliver claims that I accused him of being the master behind all those Reddit socks. I haven’t, that was simply another false statement from him, not supported by the actual statements. He does that all the time, so people often say that he lies — and I sometimes do this as well. But he’s insane, and may well believe what is completely preposterous. The insane put it all together differently than clearer thinkers do.)

More classic Oliver antics as Tobias:

  • Attacks Glamour Sickle. GS was blocked as Mikemikev, but the evidence for that was that he pointed to a screenshot hosted on EmilKirkegaard’s blog that was a mail from Oliver Smith’s attorney. Since Oliver was attacking GS for . . . for what? . . . GS pointing to that could simply indicate that he realized who was attacking him and found that document.

It was stupid — or ignorant — to post it if he cared about the account, whomever he was. But with no privileges, easier to just create another account if he is silly enough to want to waste more time on RatWiki.

The flap began over this edit. I can see why Oliver would object, it was overstated, and Oliver is obsessed about this issue, but the position was not at all what I would expect from Mikemikev. This is not a racist position, almost the opposite. Tobias attacked GS as Mikemikev, which is behavior that got him blocked before. Here.

The screenshot is present in the archived version of Kirkegaard’s blog page on Oliver, timestamped April 19, 2019. So GS could easily have seen that. This has happened again and again on RatWiki. New user writes something that sets Oliver off, who makes personal accusations. So the person figures out who Oliver is and says so. Off with their head! Or this actually was Mikemikev playing a more patient game than before, creating RW content that can actually be accepted by Rats. Oliver wants it deleted, not because it’s wrong, but because it was allegedly written by Mikemikev. Very old story.

    • Block of CBH by Tobias. CBH was anti-hereditarian, and I suspected him of being Oliver. But it could be Darryl or someone else. This discussion on Talk:Eric Turkheimer shows standard Oliver behavior.
      • Jsolinsky worked on the article as a Turkeimer supporter, perhaps, and was harassed and cooped, driven away. Standard RatWiki.
      • Concerned was obviously Oliver Smith, blocked for ban evasion 23 March 2019.
      • CBH defended his article, he was attacked by Concerned as a troll.  So pattern: Oliver disagrees with someone on the fine points of “hereditarianism,” and so Oliver accuses him of being The Enemy, and blocks him or accuses him of Bad Behavior and gets someone else to block him. It’s been going on for a long time. Tobias claims that CBH was a sock of Jean Lusaz. And see here, by Concerned on CBH.
      • Jean_Lusaz is called a “problem editor.” Never blocked, no rights changes. Lusaz created pages:

So Tobias was deceptive to claim Lusaz was “cooped.” He tried and failed. (But a schizophrenic may remember an event like that differently from a normal person. That he filed it made it real.)

Lusaz and CBH created three attack pages similarly to Oliver. I am not claiming they are the same, not at all. But Oliver could see him/them as competitors in writing pages on alleged racists and racialist pseudoscientists. There is no evidence shown that Lusaz and CBH were the same user. Neither one was particularly disruptive, they were not blocked (except CBH by Oliver, months later, unblocked by Dysklyver). Oliver was blocked for his behavior, which he is repeating, as well as for his own good (i.e., with his legal and health problems, he would be better off not stirring the pot so intensely), not creating more attack articles on RatWiki.

Tobias was given a “probation.” How far does he need to go? I’ve annotated that talk page discussion.

Update May 8, 2019

And this goes on and on.

Tobias commented on the Reddit mess. I have annotated this with Hypothes.is, to put those comments on Reddit without creating tomes, but here is that discussion as well, from Talk:Emil Kirkegaard, the last place he should be touching, given his legal issues.

Impersonations on Reddit

It’s the same pattern with dumb and dumber. Mikemikev creates an account attacking Emil Kirkegaard, then Abd ul-Rahman Lomax shows up claiming it is me. I don’t post on Reddit and none of these accounts are mine. I just blocked several accounts of Mike today here linking to Reddit.

It is implausible that Mikemikev would be attacking Kirkegaard, even if they may have disagreements. Mikemikev can contact Kirkegaard directly if he has the question that was raised in the thread. I did not claim that the account was Oliver. Oliver does not read carefully, because he is simply looking for what is “wrong,” to attack. I don’t know if it was him, but the many accounts created repeat the Smith party line.

It could be either brother, or, less likely, someone else who supports them. Mikemikev is implausible because the throwaway accounts would be counter to his agenda. The “created to impersonate Oliver” is quite a funny argument. I.e., create an account that makes a series of dumb claims, repeated over and over, that are Oliver’s claims, it would be an impersonation. Yes, it would. But nobody is going to block Oliver anywhere because of those socks. Real impersonation socks are created to attrract those kinds of responses from clueless communities.

Many Mikemikev accounts on RatWiki are completely obvious as him, but we should be aware that there have been impersonations for a long time. Dysklyver has received emails that were from Mikemikev, and Mikemikev could deny that from known accounts.

This lack of timely denial — when an impersonation is visible, and from an account known to be the target, such as from a known Oliver email — is evidence against impersonation. The Reddit accounts are not impersonating Mikemikev, but are doing a great job impersonating a Smith brother, pointing to articles created by the Smiths.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiInAction/comments/blegca/why_was_emil_kirkegaard_user_deleet_blocked_from/ Tobias (talk) 20:38, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Mikemikev’s and Abd increased trolling activity is because they know there is an impending lawsuit involving Kirkegaaard;

Schizophrenics routinely believe that they can read the minds of others, that they know incentives. This one is preposterous: the activity that Oliver is calling trolling was not from me, nor from Mikemikev. Mikemikev may well have posted links to the Reddit discussions on RatWiki. Believe me, I’ve been tempted to do that! But I have not. (It is impossible to stop such comments, but socking is not my MO, unlike what the Smiths have claimed. I *have* created RatWiki accounts, and have edited IP there, but it has been far more rare than they claim, and for arguably legitimate purposes; for example, I used an account to ask a Rat if a comment elsewhere, using his name, was him. It was not. Of course, that account was also blocked. Anyone frustrating the Smith agenda in any way will be blocked if they think they can get away with it.

They are fascists, suppressing free discussion. And that’s been consistent for years. They will object to “fascist” thinking that it means “neo-Nazi” or “antisemitic” or something. That is not the original meaning of the term, it is about the suppression of freedom in the name of collective “rightness,” and it can be left-wing or right-wing or even “anti-fascist.”

Fasicists are enemies of academic freedom, which must include the freedom to be wrong. There are limits, to be sure. But a free society permits much and only acts as minimally necessary to contain damage from deceptive ideas. There is always a tension, but the Smiths come down firmly on the side of suppressing whatever they believe is wrong, and in many areas: parapsychology, cold fusion, medical and diet “woo,” including skepticism directed at authoritarian positions, which they will call “denialism.”

Thus they are not genuine skeptics.

I’m guessing Mikemikev is trying to cause me legal trouble hence why he’s trying to blame his Reddit attacks on Kirkegaard onto me,

The Reddit socking does not cause Oliver any legal trouble. He is ignorant. The only way they could cause him trouble is if it could be shown in court that they were him. That is not impossible, but unlikely unless they were him. I would encourage him to realize that, if he is deposed or appears at trial, that lying under oath is truly stupid, very risky, he could go to jail for it, whereas in a civil suit, he only risks damages, and he claims he is judgment-proof.

So Oliver is imagining and asserting (for whose benefit?) what is quite implausible, unless Mikemikev is really stupid. The Rats do imagine that all alleged “racists” are stupid, so they sometimes believe arguments like this. I have not had any political discussions with Mikemikev, but I’ve not yet found him to lie, and when I pointed that out, he suggested that maybe I should consider his political positions in that light, at least that is how I interpreted it. But people can hold and express quite bizarre political positions and not be, therefore, liars. We need political discussion between people of highly divergent views, but who are not willing to lie, because it becomes impossible to find peace and justice if people lie.

Lies are the enemy of humanity, a truly ancient enemy.

and all his socking here today related to spamming Reddit, which is quite pointless since I’ve already shown my lawyer all of Mikemikev’s impersonations

There was socking, indeed, pointing to Reddit, for two reasons: there was an article published in VDARE, a right-wing publication, well-funded, “responsible.” Which means that if they defame you, you could sue their ass off, and recovery is possible. The article was on the wikis (Wikipedia and RatWiki) and Oliver D. Smith. And it thoroughly outed him, far more deeply than I have ever seen before, giving an aerial photo of exactly where his parents live — information I did not have before. (The Smiths have claimed for a year and a half that I “publish the addresses of skeptics” — meaning themselves — when what I actually did was have a street (not the house location) from a document that had been published in various places, with the names of the residents. I redacted that within a day, even though it was harmless. This is how they create defamation, they find something that can be stated that “looks bad” when taken out of context, and then repeat it in dozens of places. Or more.

That he has shown his lawyer alleged impersonations (again, are those impersonations — they do not claim to be Oliver Smith) is meaningless. But schizophrenics create meaning, routinely, it is in the nature of the disorder. He is being sued by Kirkegaard and possibly others. What would Mikemikev’s behavior have to do with this, that his lawyer would be interested? What, “Look how mean they are to me!”

His poor lawyer! The communication from the lawyer, trolled onto RatWiki.

To find the latest scoop on Oliver, I look at logs for his account and see whom he has blocked, then look at their contributions. Oliver has never learned that by reacting to trolling, you can call attention to it. Dysklyver has recently attempted to explain this to him. Deaf ears.

So Oliver (Tobias) blocked Smashism. (Ban evasion: mikemikev) Smashism Contributions are Juicy.

Oliver (as SimonandSimon) created Lance Welton, the pseudonym of the author of the VDARE article on him, after that article had been published (April 6, 2019). This, again, is standard Smith behavior: create articles attacking anyone who exposes what they do. Okay, so maybe this was missional for RatWiki in this case, but did the article mention that piece, which was extensively about RatWiki including in the title?

No. So Smashism contributions:

From the RatWiki meeting page, the Saloon Bar:

Hey Guys

Have you seen this article about you in VDare? Smashism (talk) 07:16, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

From the article on Lance Welton:

Welton has also written a hit-piece on Rationalwiki editor Oliver D. Smith.[23]

23. Lunatics Take Over Asylum: Oliver D. Smith, RationalWiki, And The Wikipedeans

When I was still a sysop on RatWiki, I made a small harmless change to the article created on me by Oliver’s brother. I was yelled at for COI editing. So, here, Oliver has an obvious COI, and he uses his tools to support it, instead of letting others handle it. That’s not only bad for his own state of mind, but it is also a demonstration of how RatWiki has bent over backwards over the years to accommodate the Smiths.

He reverted the edit without explanation, and semi-protected the article “prevent more mikemikev socks”. He blocked Smashism, of course, Ban evasion: mikemikev). He trolltopped the “hey guys” Saloon bar comment, but then, this is the first Dysklyver action I have seen that I’d question. He deleted it. It is very normal for RatWiki to cover articles written about it, even “crappy” articles.” they have have a whole “Pissed at us” page. So why not this? Both Smashism additions were true and verifiable. But there are Forbidden Topics on RatWiki, and anything Smith brothers is Untouchable. Except some recent approaches.

As long as RatWiki suppresses inconvenient information, there will be continued disruption, and the methods used to suppress make that much more likely. Insulting trolls encourages them, always.

Smashism may have been Mikemikev, it’s plausible. But this is by no means clear. It could have been anyone who saw that and thought it relevant. It is certainly relevant to the Lance Welton article! And Rats, I would think, would be interested in the fact that Oliver had an obvious axe to grind.

Back to what Oliver wrote about Mikemikev.

 

(he seems to have recently also been trolling Kirkegaard on 4chan), furthermore I’ve also made a disclaimer pointing out I don’t post on Reddit. Let me also respond to some of Abd’s lies:

Oliver can make any number of disclaimers, it is not proof, because he is a known and admitted liar. That does not mean he is lying on this, but I did not accuse him of posting on Reddit. I pointed out that the pile of throwaway accounts were pursuing a Smith agenda. Easily, it could have been his brother. As to 4chan, the trolling of Kirkegaard (no reference was given) could easily be from the same source as the Reddit sock farm, and Oliver sees Mikemikev underneath every bed and noise in the night. Again, schizophrenia, not a fun disorder, unless one learns to be careful and rigorously and thoroughly honest. In which case it can be a blast!

Oliver is following 4chan? Someone take his computer access away, he doesn’t need that mind-rot.

  • Abd falsely claims I contacted the media (who?) about Kirkegaard. I never did and he presents no evidence for this outright lie.

From the hypothes.is annotation for an archive.is copy of this page: “The media contact claim came from Skeptic Dave, referring to the author of two articles that Oliver has admitted writing. Skeptic Dave was Oliver (Aeschylus), see the block log.

This is conclusive. It is possible that Oliver does not remember all that he has done. But if he has any sense, he will look at evidence indicating his memory is defective. It could be the first step toward recovering from his disorders. Rational skepticism does not forget to be skeptical of ourselves and our memories. I learned this years ago, by recording and creating transcripts of meetings I had attended. Most people would think that a waste of time, obsessive. But I learned from it that my memories of what happened and what actually happened were different. In later training all this became very clear. This is normal human psychology, but not understood by many.

  • Abd falsely claims I first added the RationalWiki section about Kirkegaard’s writings on paedophilia. Nope. Those were originally added by another editor  (in 2016 those claims were never on the article version I wrote), secondly I never knew about this blog post until Oliver Keyes (not me) posted about. So I never even dug this up.

Again a memory problem? He is correct that the claims were not in the first version, he created. It is also possible that the information came from Oliver Keyes — I have no opinion on that, and it does not matter. Rather, the pedophilia claims were added by Schizophrenic., see my page covering that account.

Schizophrenic admitted being Oliver, and if this was an impersonator, it was not handled until long after, once it had been externally noticed. But Schizophrenic was quite active, on topics of high Oliver interest, not just Emil Kirkegaard.

If Oliver keeps up his historical behavior, faced with evidence, he will foam at the mouth, “Lies! You are defending a pedophile-apologist neo-Nazi racist! You have no proof!” And then he writes about others being nut cases, and ugly as well. (In that little flap, Oliver shows that he believes gratuitous insults are acceptable if the target has done something wrong, somehow, somewhere. This is all linkage that I would expect from the disorders he has claimed.)

  • Abd repeatedly claims without evidence I’ve “defamed” Kirkegaard. That’s for a judge or court to decide. My defence is truth or honest opinion.Tobias (talk) 21:04, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

It is true that “defamation” is conclusory, not factual. However, Oliver writes conclusions as if fact, constantly. I could not testify in court that Oliver defamed Kirkegaard, because I would not be considered legally competent to come to that conclusion. But I could assert this in a complaint, as I’m sure Kirkegaard has. I can assert this in ordinary speech. Now, he asserts that I claim “without evidence,” yet this is simply his opinion, certainly not “truth.” I’ve presented evidence many times, but here it is again, one piece among many. His email to me. In it, he calls Emil Kirkegaard a “neo-Nazi pedophile.” My informed but not-expert option is that this was defamation, and this not marginal, and was not from a possible impersonator.

If Oliver had not also made sure that this libel was widely published and cited and the meme continuing to be distributed, it would probably have come to nothing. But he did do those things.

He is denying that he contacted media. Of course! Spreading that story to media was defamation, intended to harm.

Honest opinion is not enough. If we are not careful with how we express our honest opinions, we easily can create harm to others, and we may be held legally responsible. If what we express is obviously mere opinion, such as “He is an idiot!” it may not be actionable. But if it has a possible factual basis, with serious consequences for the target, such as “So-and-so is a pedophile and I have proof,” then actual harm can be caused through even inadvertent error. We are responsible for the harm caused by our “inadvertent errors.” Such as traffic accidents.

This is civil law, not criminal. In criminal law, there must be mens rea, “intention of wrong-doing”.

Now, Oliver has said things like this many times, “Abd repeatedly claims without evidence …” yet one of the reasons I have a reputation for writing so much is that I present a great deal of evidence. So if his words have any meaning, and if he is not insane, he’s lying. There is evidence, plenty of it.

Of course, he’s also insane, so he might or might not be lying. I’m not a mind-reader, unlike so many Rats who seem to know how “woo-believers” and other objects of their derision think.

Update May 9, 2019

Oliver (Tobias) responded, again on the totally inappropriate page, Talk:Emil Kirkegaard. They are ruminating about this kind of activity on the Moderator’s forum, though the Smiths have long been importing drama from other sites onto RatWiki.

Lomax has responded to above, predictably writing more lies. Laughably his “evidence” for the first claim about me contacting the media is a troll account that made some tongue-in-cheek comments and jokes (which I’ve pointed out to him multiple times, but he continues to quote deliberately out of context for his own delusions); the same account also made plenty of non-serious claims such as “This is my 59809540990228822 account. Whew. I keep loosing track.” According to Lomax, that must then mean I have 59809540990228822 accounts. Apparently if you crack a joke on the internet or shit-post, it must all be true. Tobias (talk) 21:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Oliver almost never gives links to the actual claims he calls “lies.” Here, he calls SkepticDave a troll account and claims SkepticDave was joking. It did not look like a joke, and nobody laughed. Again, Oliver draws a conclusion and then attributes it to me, about an actual joke. The reality was that Skeptic Dave had many accounts, how many I have never counted.

SkepticDave edited from 10 January 2018 to 4 February 2018, and was given autopatrolled. While SD focused on Oliver topics, mostly, his first edit was a possible Darryl topic (i.e., Oliver’s brother). I see accessory signs that, however, SD was indeed Oliver. The following is reasonably conclusive:

SkepticDave created  .Anatoly_Karlin. This was later edited by Agent47M87, Arcticos, and Tobias, all Oliver socks. All but Tobias have been blocked as socks of Aeschylus (Oliver), who admitted creating the Karlin article.

So Oliver is either insane or lying.

He’s also still repeating his favourite conspiracy theory I have a brother who edits RationalWiki/Reddit who is somehow paid money by someone to edit here, despite those claims originated by trolls on Encyclopedia Dramatica.Tobias (talk) 21:44, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

And this is an old story. First of all, the brother. Oliver has many times commented on his brother, or on his “family,” and has often complained that his “family” is being outed on pages that refer only to the two twin brothers. In his email to me of January-25-2018, Oliver wrote, about his brother:

The overlap between us is actually very minor. We both have different qualifications, interests etc; for example I have no interest in debunking the paranormal, while he does. What little I do know is that he is linked to ‘skeptic’ organisations, supposedly is either paid or works with other people. I do not see any ‘real world’ harm by what he does though, if he’s just refuting or criticising spiritualists or ghost-believers where is the harm

(Oliver saw no harm in impersonating a “ghost-believer” to get him blocked and his study of sources deleted.)

The story of payment shows up also in the comment by Darryl to me on meta.

I was even offered paid work from the owner of a skeptic group.

I have never claimed that Darryl was actually paid, but that it is possible.

In a conversation with his target, Darryl refers to the Guerilla Skeptics (who are almost certainly volunteers) but says he is involved much deeper than that, which could be a reference to being a paid editor.

As well, Oliver wrote me, April 7, 2018, that there was no brother, and suggested I ask Rome Viharo for email he had sent to Viharo. I did, and Viharo supplied me with the mails, and this is from the mail of  that same day.

A method to get unblocked on Wikipedia is to claim you have a brother or sister editing. I used that excuse several times to get unblocked many years back. I don’t even have a real sister, but made an account pretending to be female, and so on. I don’t have any links to ‘skeptics’ and I posted the same false information to Farley. At one point he was trying to see what was going on, and I just gave him the brother story I invented. I fed people nonsense about shadow skeptic organisations and paid editing, there’s none of it. It’s all one guy (me) and I have no connections.

There is no evidence of a sister, other than the Wikipedia account HealthyGirl, blocked as an AP sock (good hand account, by the way, caught up in checkuser). There are public records showing a brother the same age, Darryl. The behaviors are different. He was now lying about lying. Now, why bring up Farley? Well, Farley would be a possible connection with the James Randi Educational Foundation, which might have had funding for writing. Again, that’s speculation, but the point is that the paid editing suspicion is not without evidence. There are two organizations, and neither are “shadow,” Guerilla Skeptics (Susan Gerbic running it) and JREF.

And somebody has clearly been protecting the Smiths on RationalWiki. What they have done would have gotten any ordinary user “promoted” and banned several times over.

This had nothing to do with Encyclopedia Dramatica, but that has been a common Smith claim. Blame it all on ED and on Michaeldsuarez. Or blame it all on Michael Coombs or Abd. There have been other targets, such as GethN7, and Joshua Connor Moon and his mother.

Yet if this was all a lie, how can others be at fault for believing it? Oliver arguments can be like this, internally self-contradictory. No brother, and “doxxing my family.”

But if his brother were actually being paid, his brother might not be thrilled at how much Oliver revealed, that could be clearly shown to be him, and to protect family income, Oliver might well take on all the blame. After all, he has no job and is on public assistance, living with his parents, or so his lawyer wrote.

Later, he wrote to Viharo:

As for myself lying about Dan Skeptic, I’ll leave it up to you to decide whether I’m really him, or protecting a brother as Lomax thinks. Should I be criticized for the latter?

Oliver has never understood how I think. Since I’ve been very young, I hold multiple contradictory ideas in my mind, and I “believe” none of them. Rather, I explore possibilities. First of all, from what I’ve seen, Oliver was not Dan Skeptic, that was clearly Darryl.

Should he be “criticized” for protecting a brother? Surely that depends on what the brother did! I explained to him, as others had explained to him, that he can become responsible for what his brother has done if he protects him from natural consequences, to the detriment of others. But when a conversation starts to become real, something breaks and he starts frothing at the mouth.

There is very little hope for him with his disorders if he doesn’t make a choice of total honesty. He really can’t afford to screw around with it. As he is, his life expectancy is low, he is at high risk.

Tobias continues to careen from one fracas to another, on RatWiki.

May 10, 2019

Jinx commented, as EverymorningWP, in the Reddit thread Why was Emil Kirkegaard user: Deleet blocked from Wikipedia? He also confirmed his identity as Jinx on RatWiki. Wow! A Rat who is open, this is refreshing! (There are a few, to be sure.)

On User talk:Jinx.

Reddit trolling

The users on the Reddit thread are Mikemikev and Abd. Both of them are notorious for creating countless troll socks, including impersonating other users. @D was also apparently impersonated there and I now see either Mike or Abd has created a sock using my name.Tobias (talk) 22:46, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

I mean I think I already had a good idea of that since it was pointed out in the thread. I don’t see “Tobias” anywhere there. I honestly don’t know that much about this whole Oliver Smith/abd situation. Jinx (talk) 23:55, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Tl;dr, Reddit is full of trolls. 🙂 — NekoDysk 09:27, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Okay, There is only one account in the thread that is at all likely to be Mikemikev, and that is OliverDSmithAntifa, which also explains Tobias’s (Oliver’s) comment about a sock “using his name.”

I have never impersonated anyone. Not ever. An “impersonation sock” is one that pretends to be someone and, with that guise, acts badly or disruptively or offensively in order to throw mud on the target. Mikemikev has created many accounts using Oliver Smith or variations in them, but none of these (that I have seen so far) could have been mistaken for Oliver. Some claimed impersonations, my review indicates, were actually Oliver, such as, on RatWiki, Schizophrenic (obviously Oliver) and Schizophreniac (a little more difficult, but wrote a bio of Oliver that was utterly unlike any of the hostile bios, it was how he sees himself.) As to Schizophrenic, notice who blocked him, and then who blocked the blocking sysop and why.  (Aeschylus  — see above — was Oliver. In fact, Dysklyver erred there, I think, but if not, I’d be fascinated to learn why. DS was not Oliver, but his brother Darryl, and much stands on this intelligence.)

I have also not seen any Mikemikev true impersonations, as distinct from parody accounts, like OliverDSmithAntifa. I am not certain that was Mikemikev, because lately the Smiths have been claiming there are many Mikemikev throwaway accounts on Reddit, for accounts I’m sure are them, and might have created that in order to strengthen the story. But as D (Nekodysk, Dysklyver) has pointed out, without a program, it is a tad difficult to distinguish between a crazy loon, and another crazy loon imitating a crazy loon. — But it can often be done, because crazies still have individual personalities, and there is the issue of what the police call “guilty knowledge.”

But it is certainly possible to distinguish the real people, and Jinx (known open identity), Dysklyver (ditto) and myself, from anonymous trolls. Oliver D. Smith is also a real person and has sometimes been open about it. He claims he is not creating all those Reddit socks, and he might be telling the truth. It might be his brother, which he often does not mention as he blames everyone else. But some recent comments I think might have been difficult for even his brother to write.

What is clear about all those socks is that they are singing the Smith opera, referring to Smith-written articles on RatWiki, repeating the standard Smith memes. By the duck test, on Wikipedia, these would have been whacked as Anglo Pyramidologist long ago. But the Wikipedians are slow, sometimes. This was Oliver, 99.9%. I see three strong signs.

Could the flood of throwaway socks be impersonations of Oliver or his brother? While it is possible, it is quite unlikely, because those socks are pursuing the agenda of the Smiths, attacking their enemies. Most impersonation socks are quick, throwaway, because it’s a lot of work to actually play out, in detail, someone else’s agenda. There are many impersonation socks pretending to me that have edited RatWiki. They have been listed as me by the probable sock master — which was probably Darryl, not Oliver. They will often copy a piece of text I wrote and then spam it, irritating the Rats no end.

Ah, the Smith brothers. Jinx, you have comments from three Oliver Smith socks on your Talk page.  PunisherOcto, Concerned. These were all identified by me as Oliver, well before Dysklyver acted on his own information, and, of course, the Smiths called it all “lies.”

Meanwhile, those throwaway accounts. Oliver will focus on the parody account, as if it has something to do with the others. This is his long-term method of handling evidence. He will point to what supports his point, especially at what makes his enemies look bad, with abundant hostile interpretation, and suppress or distract from all the rest. He does it with all his targets, and it is how he writes articles. In that particular Reddit thread, these are the throwaways:

(The year is all 2019, times are GMT-4)

  1. May 6 12:24 Waters4545 started the thread asking about Deleet (Kirkegaard). Mikemikev — or I — could ask Kirkegaard directly. No, this question was asked to provide a soapbox for smearing Kirkegaard.
  2. May 6 14:06 JamesfromBoston standard Smith deception libelling Kirkegaard, through quotation out of context.
  3. May 8 10:07 sarahfromscotland attacks Kirkegaard and me.
  4. May 8 10:19 sarahfromscotland
  5. May 8 10:29 sarahfromscotland attacks Kirkegaard and me.
  6. May 8 10:40 sarahfromscotland attacks Kirkegaard and me.
  7. May 8 10:53 sarahfromscotland
  8. May 8 11:04 sarahfromscotland extensive rant
  9. May 8 11:16 robertwaltons asserts impersonations but promotes Smith agenda.
  10. May 8 11:26 robertwaltons all seven comments from this account are identical
  11. May 8 11:36 robertwaltons
  12. May 8 12:01 robertwaltons
  13. May 8 12:20 robertwaltons
  14. May 8 12:35 robertwaltons
  15. May 8 12:45 robertwaltons
  16. May 8 20:17 sarahfromscotland claims child rape apology represents Kirkegaard’s “views” because he wrote them, but he wrote them, not as his views, but as a description of how a pedophile might think. And then he rejected the thinking and suggested castration. This child rape story that has been repeated all over the internet, all promoted by Oliver, (and then cited by him as proof it is true), classic deception by quotation out of context, and still supported on RatWiki. Of course that I’ve divorced seven times is brought up, as if relevant, and this is, again, standard Oliver rant. He’s pushed this in many places. (It’s misleading. . . . but this is not the place to explain it.)
  17. May 8 20:32 sarahfromscotland
  18. May 9 10:06 OliverDSmithAntifa parody troll or impersonation of Mikemikev
  19. May 9 10:29 OliverDSmithAntifa copy of above.
  • Total comments: 52
  • Comments by SPAs: 18 (plus OP)
  • Comments by Abd: 23 (I tag all SPAs because they often delete the account)
  • Comments by others: 11

Notice the timings. It is easy to interlace timings tightly, I once tested this on Wikipedia, I was able to create more than three comments with different accounts, with the same minute timestamp. Doing that while avoiding checkuser would be a tad hairy, but possible. The length of the comments does not matter. But this is not how people ordinarily edit, and this sockmaster did not bother, it is too much trouble for too little gain.

Why do the Smiths lie so blatantly and so obviously? They have found that it doesn’t matter. Few care, and he has learned what propagandists wrote about extensively in the last century. Lie often enough, throw enough mud, and many people will believe it. If the mud confirms what people readily believe, they will repeat it, and we place higher credence on what we hear from more than one source. Fake news. It’s a thing. “So many people saying this on the internet, must be true!” And this cuts in all directions.

One more point here. Oliver might believe what he writes. There are conditions that create high certainty from very weak evidence, schizophrenia is one of them. Looking at the claims of the socks, and I’ve seen the same from validated Smith communications, an impression arises and then all subsequent evidence is interpreted to maintain the original impression. This is a very common problem, but it is extreme with certain psychological conditions. More ordinarily, it is “confirmation bias.” Wikipedia. RationalWiki.

The RatWiki article is hilarious.

Additional comment by Oliver

@Jinx It’s the “Smith brother conspiracy theory”, there used to be an article on it but was deleted. Abd still claims there are two “Smith brothers” who edit this wiki. He never provides any evidence and just spreads misinformation.Tobias (talk) 17:16, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Oliver has acknowledged the brother, Darryl L. Smith, many times. The current Darryl account is John66. There may be others, but John66 is clearly a continuation of the Wikipedia account Skeptic from Britain — fingered as his brother Darryl on Encyclopedia Dramatica by a clear Oliver account (MrStrong).

Michaeldsuarez (JuniusThaddeus) revealed that conversation because Oliver had accused me of being Skeptic from Britain, and MDS hates lying like that. However, because of the accusation, I had already investigated and concluded that, yes, SfB was Darryl. When SfB “retired” from Wikipedia, he took up on the account John66, still active, covering the same subjects. Darryl has been very active for years, with many accounts on Wikipedia and RatWiki, and would be unlikely to just disappear.

The claim of “never provides any evidence” is a clear lie. Oliver may  argue with the evidence, but it exists, and is extensive. I have not shown all of it, by the way, because I don’t want certain sock puppetry investigation techniques revealed (I investigated socks for years on Wikipedia and elsewhere, and it is useful that sock masters do not know exactly how they reveal their identity.)

Oliver confirmed much about his brother in his emails with me, which he later claimed were harassment, yet another lie. Those were voluntary communications, the exchange was begun by him.

In that correspondence, he began by confirming what already I knew, by then. Later, he claimed that the whole brother story was a lie, it was all him. Now, was he lying or telling the truth?

Wait, if he was telling the truth, the brother story was a lie, but it would still be evidence, a confession, so he is lying when he claims there is no evidence — even if there were not a mountain of evidence besides this.

Oliver ties himself up in knots attempting to conceal reality. Oliver is facing real legal action. He’s lied too many times about too many people, some of whom may not care that he is “judgment proof.”

Oliver does not link to the deleted article. This is common, he does not make it easy to check his claims. Here is a link to the deletion request

RationalWiki:Articles_for_deletion/RationalWiki_Smith_brothers_conspiracy_theory

Note added: I have recovered the page and it is at anglo-pyramidologist/rationalwiki-smith-brothers-conspiracy-theory/, with added commentary.

As you will find, the article was not only deleted, but recently suppressed. This article was written from the point of view of the Smith brothers, to ridicule the “conspiracy theory.” It did not out the brothers. I was a sysop at the time, and the deletion requester was Marky, the Darryl Smith sock who had created the article on me, fulfilling on his threats. The article creator was MrOrganic, i.e., Oliver Smith. (see the suppression log for MrOrganic.) (And, by the way, if you look through contributions, Krom was Oliver Smith, that’s very well-known and admitted).

Definitely not Rome Viharo! Some Rats are idiots. Or liars.

If they believed this was Rome Viharo, MrOrganic would have been blocked in a flash. I have generally concluded that David Gerard is not merely deluded, he knows what he’s been doing. But I could be wrong.

How do I know what I claim above? Well, I was there, very involved, for starters. I have also spent way too many hours studying the interactions of the Smiths, especially with RatWiki. They are recognizable and distinguishable by many signs.

How does a tracker know what animal they are tracking by signs on the ground? Well, long experience. I’ll share this with anyone actually interested, but you will not know how to track an animal from a few words.

And, yes, my training is in science, and I have done control experiments with some of the techniques I use. For example, they claim I linked a Smith sock with Bongolian. No, not in the least, but I did show clear evidence that Bongolian was not Debunking Spiritualism/John66.  How they converted that into an accusation of Bongolian is beyond me, but they did.)

Bottom line, this must be understood or the situation will seem crazy and mysterious: They lie. A lot. They lie when anyone could readily determine it as such, if willing to look at evidence. Because Oliver is insane, he might not technically be lying. But Darryl is high-functioning.

This is not some ordinary political disagreement. My general political orientation is progressive. I trust the claims of anthropogenic global warming, but . . . I confronted abuse of tools on Wikipedia to suppress information from reliable sources that might question it in some way, and the blocking of users who were called “denialists,” but who were civil and did not violate policies, because academic freedom is essential to science, and neutrality to a true encyclopedia.

MrOrganic

Oliver has, again and again, frothing at the mouth, revealed what had been concealed. However, to understand this, we need to know that he also lies; he tells whatever lies fit the situation. But he doesn’t realize how much is disclosed, until perhaps later. Then he may say he was lying or joking or being sarcastic. And then sometimes he is, in fact, being sarcastic, but with the truth.

For some background, Block log for MrOrganic:

  • 01:22, 11 May 2019 D (talk | contribs) changed block settings for MrOrganic (talk | contribs) with an expiration time of π×infinity! (account creation disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (tut tut, you forgot to pull talk page access)
  • 01:19, 11 May 2019 Tobias (talk | contribs) blocked MrOrganic (talk | contribs) with an expiration time of π×infinity! (account creation disabled) (Ban evasion: Mikemikev or Abd Lomax sock, Lomax is now trying to blame onto someone else on his blog) (unblock | change block)
  • 17:29, 9 October 2017 Abd (talk | contribs | block) blocked MrOrganic (talk | contribs) with an expiration time of 314159 seconds (about 3.6 days) (account creation disabled) (vandalism by SPA supressing completion of expression) (unblock | change block)

and then:

  • 19:59, 9 October 2017 David Gerard (talk | contribs | block) changed group membership for Abd from Autopatrolled and Sysop to Autopatrolled (attempted harassment, ban may follow)

So now, from User talk:D (Dysklyver, NekoDysk)

this

Special:Contributions/MrOrganic is not who u think EK (talk) 11:12, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

And this brings up, WTF is EK? And how does EK know who MrOrganic was? EK is a new account created 25 Feb 2019, immediately joined (or was already a member) of the Discord server, is now a mod there, promptly opped by D the next day, with “(unabashed nepotism), ” and when later promoted for lack of demonstrated editing, re-opped by D with “(no reason to desysop, implicitly trusted)”. EK has restrained Oliver, showing much more than normal knowledge. So this is an additional clue.

(Inb4 Tobias dumps a wall of text) I know it’s technically misidentified, but honestly it doesn’t matter who exactly it was since they definitely merited a block, and I can’t be asked to relitigate a drama from 2017. 😏 — NekoDysk 11:39, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
@EKNekoDysk 11:55, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

MrOrganic was not identified in the block log. So he must be referring to my identification as Oliver. At the time, I suspected this was Darryl, but I have learned to distinguish these socks with far more precision. MrOrganic was Oliver, unless someone was a very sophisticated imitator, unlikely then — and still. It could be done, to be sure, but who would have a motivation to go to so much work, and especially then? I was not yet completely convinced about the Smiths, and was not particularly aware of the ED pages (though I don’t remember when I first saw them). I was only operating on suspicion that the Anglo Pyramidologist sock family was involved in the disruption I had encountered on Wikipedia and Wikiversity. I was not at that point tagging them as “Smiths”, except accidentally, once, the name being in a link that was promptly deleted.

David Gerard knows who it is. Emails were sent when that “Smith brother conspiracy theory” page was made and he quickly deleted it.

Indeed he did. And what has become completely clear is that the Smiths operate through private complaints. Notice that Oliver does not disclose who sent the emails and how he knows it. Gerard deleted the page with “(Harassment: yeah, no)”, but took no action against the creator, but . . . against me for blocking the creator. The formal deletion request was by Marky, i.e., the AP sock who had harassed me on Wikipedia, and who had objected to my using the name “Anglo Pyramidologist” for the sock family — that is the Wikipedia name for the SPI archive — claiming that he was not Anglo, and he wasn’t. He was Darryl. Or there is a third brother, which was hinted, and there is an older brother in the family, which could explain some mysteries. I have not named that brother, but others have shown the documentation.

But the evidence is strong that MrOrganic was Oliver. He still shows the same idiosyncracies.

The problem is Abd/Mike are known to create impersonator accounts, double impersonations (accounts attacking themselves while impersonating an impersonator) and well… it’s just confusing and insane. But the purpose of that account was doxing.

The purpose was to head off doxxing by labelling it a “conspiracy theory,” and that’s obvious. As to impersonator accounts, they have been common on RatWiki for a long time. But Oliver confuses parody accounts and other non-impersonations with impersonations. If MrOrganic was an impersonation, of whom? MrOrganic did display many Smith behaviors, and was recognized — probably by Mikemikev — but . . . the was a Smith sysop account active at that point, Skeptical. If MrOrganic was a Smith impersonator, why did Skeptical not block? Instead, Skeptical went after me.

(I have never created an impersonator account. I have created investigative accounts, and my policy is not to disclose them, not to respond to accusations. These accounts are not disruptive. Impersonation accounts deliberately offend and troll and spam, not as pure trolling, but with an agenda: to prove that the impersonated individual is really bad, vicious, etc. As an example, the account that appears here could easily be Mikemikev. It looks immediately like Mikemikev. That, then, could be an impersonation, or, the obvious, it could be Mikemikev. In the absence of other information, I do assume it was Mikemikev.

Lomax has admitted to using accounts with “Smith” in the title on RationalWiki, see for example Some random Smith.

Just fact: I have not admitted that.

He originally lied and denied that account was him, but since the evidence was so conclusive (Gerard identified his writing style) he’s now changed his mind. Tobias (talk) 12:48, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

I have not denied that I was that account, either. As I’ve written, policy. Gerard will think any detailed explanation of something is me. No edits were pointed to, and what Oliver is assuming here is that Gerard had intimate knowledge of my style, but from where? Years ago, perhaps, when he tried to promote me. That intervention by Gerard was, to me, diagnostic that Gerard was protecting Oliver, because the edit that got Some random Smith immediately attacked by a probable Oliver sock, with Gerard intervening promptly — rare for him! — was simply to add an obvious comment to a deletion discussion. Absolutely not disruptive and far, far from wall of text.

Using Smith in an account name is not impersonation, and the proof is that there was no suspicion of this account until it was whacked for knowing too much. (And good contributions were deleted. Go figure. Someone in the RatWiki shadow world has protecting the Smiths as a high priority.)

@D Lomax is lying on Reddit already and disputing your hiding of edits “It did not contain ‘Personal or potentially identifying information,’ as you can see was the suppression reason.”

I did not “disparage” D. I merely stated that the article did not contain such information, relative to what is widely known and accepted. I.e., many Rats have called Smith socks “Smith,” now. If I state that a page does not contain something, and someone else thinks it does, this does not make either one of us into a liar, except in the Universe of Oliver Smith, where everyone else is lying.

Which to me is just an acknowledgement that MrOrganic is him since he didn’t see that account as doxing, when it obviously was doing exactly that and I had to complain to Gerard to delete what that user was posting.Tobias (talk) 13:07, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

People should know this about schizophrenia. The person will see everything as a clue confirming his or her fantasies. It can be overwhelming, because “proof” is everywhere. Humans have exquisite pattern-recognition capabilities, but if we believe the patterns we see, we can fall into paranoid fantasies. I have worked with schizophrenics, and the path to recovery is learning to be skeptical of our own ideas, to notice emotional reactions to ideas, to make reasonable judgments about “emergencies,” (Like, call the police! Don’t just complain!) and to postpone judgment otherwise.

There was no emergency with that article, because anyone looking could find all that information, easily. And then, if it was true doxxing, it would have called for immediate suppression, which was not done.

In any case, I have recovered the article, and D or anyone who can read suppressed files can confirm what I have posted. So people can judge for themselves, which Oliver desperately attempts to prevent. Or someone is attempting to prevent it, to bury actual evidence in piles of trolling and furious argument.

(I’d like to know what the References were. If it was a link to a certain WWHP page, it might have been “personal information,” indeed. But I rather doubt it was that.)

 

Lomax is also still lying and claiming he was unfairly banned because he was not Cooped. However there was a Coop made and all sysops there voted to ban him. So he lies pretty much about everything.Tobias (talk) 13:14, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

What Oliver claims here is not necessarily a lie. Rather, he is interpreting what I wrote, and history, in a very weird way. I was promoted by Gerard without a cooping. I was blocked by Skeptical (Oliver!) without a cooping. And that’s just a verifiable fact. Later, because I had pointed to the deficiency, there was some formality; as I recall it did not follow policy, but there really is no policy on RatWiki, it’s mob rule, and I don’t GAF about “unfair.” “All sysops voted to ban” was after how long, how many, and based on what?

By that time there had been many impersonation socks disrupting RatWiki, attacking users, making legal threats, and taking pieces of text from my blog and spamming them. If you believed I was doing that — and many Rats obviously did believe it — of course you would vote to ban. And this demonstrates how the Smiths have operated.

I had zero history of anything like impersonation, or being accused of impersonation, before the Smiths started claiming it about me — and claiming “proof” from what is not proof. The only example they have given is Some random Smith, who was obviously not an impersonator. If I put on an orange wig and shout “Lock her up!” would that be impersonation of the POTUS? Of course not, not in the sense claimed here.

Is Oliver claiming that MrOrganic was impersonating him? How? The fact is that impersonation socking is relatively rare, I had never seen it on Wikipedia before I encountered what Darryl did there. And it worked, probably because Wikipedians are naive. If an account writes, spamming his message, “I am WikiversityUser, writing the truth about Psychic Phenomena,” and YOU CAN’T STOP ME, IDIOT” it never seems to occur to them that this might not be WikiversityUser, but a declared enemy.

Oliver always lies. Rubber Room (talk) 13:28, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Frankly, I’d prefer that Mikemikev — if this is him — stop with the trolling. On the other hand, it does serve an obvious purpose. If you want to know if an account is Oliver Smith, or show it, poke him, especially poke him with his name. If the user comes unglued and starts raving about Mikemikev, it is almost certainly Oliver. In this case, we already know that this is Oliver, and so does Mikemikev, so this was trolling.

  • MrOrganic was accused of being Krom (i.e., Oliver) and responded with Oliver arguments (remember, I was a sysop at this point, starting to notice the mess with EmilOWK and impersonators of him.)
  • Skeptical (see his contributions after that)

Erm no, that’s all you do Mike. I even gave you a chance on your article talk yet you instead resorted to creating more troll socks because you know you have no argument and are an admitted liar.Tobias (talk) 13:35, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes. Comes unglued. I was going to write about that nutso “chance.” Oliver is carrying on a conversation with Mike, on D’s talk page. D has been advising him to ignore Mike — which is basic standard wiki advice. If he wants a conversation with Mike, he could go to Rubber Room talk, instead of inflicting it on everyone else. An appropriate name, eh? Had he done so, instead of, say, deleting the comment on Talk:D, and going to that talk page and asking for what he claims to have permitted, he just raved. And so D did block, Mike accounts generally being blocked on sight.

This is what Oliver had done:

D had created that Talk page and protected it, and put up a warning:

    • Michael Coombs loves to troll people in connection to his article. Do not engage.

Oliver ignored that and put this on that page:

Invitation to Mikemikev

Mikemikev has been socking on countless accounts here claiming his article contains “defamation”. As I recently responded to @D:

Is Mikemikev no longer a Nazi/white nationalist and so is complaining the article is defamatory because it only reflects his old political views? The problem with that is his current Gab account is filled with same old extreme racism, anti-Semitism and his support for far-right/Nazi groups. I see no change in his political views whatsoever and everything on the article is accurate and well sourced.Tobias (talk) 16:08, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

So I would like to see what Mikemikev has to say since he continues to scream “defamation” but cannot show any evidence for this.

I’m unlocking this for 24 hours so Mike has a chance to respond on point. However if he shows up to troll and attack me, it will get locked again. Mikemikev needs to specifically list what is “defamation” on his article and I’m giving him a chance to do that. Failure to do so would mean he’s (as expected) a total liar. Tobias (talk) 16:17, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

There were major problems with this. Mikemike is banned on RatWiki, and Oliver does not have the right to unban. If Mikemikev were to show up, he’d be blocked, so an orderly conversation would probably not be possible. Further, Oliver also imagines what Mike would say and already argues against it. What would be the p0int? Then, this is not directed to any RatWiki acccount and even if it were, it is unreliable that a suggestion like this would be noticed within 24 hours. So “failure to do so” would a “proof” like many of Oliver’s “proofs.” Meaningless. I have never seen a list of problems with the article from Mikemikev, and Oliver does not — as usual — link to any of what he claims, other than the GAB account, which has a lot of traffic. Oliver was grandstanding here, as we can see from follows on User talk:D.

If an actual conversation is truly desired, I could arrange it. If private email (Oliver could surely do this with a known account), fine, but it could be done on the subreddit I started, What_RationalWiki.

I will not tolerate impersonation socking there. Any account purporting to be a real person or an identified account from another site will be kicked if not verifiable. Trolling will not be tolerated. But if Mike, verified, quotes the RatWiki article and claims error or defamation, that would be allowed. Attacking the site or Oliver or anyone else with ad hominem arguments will be warned and possibly kicked first, questions asked later. My goal is free speech, but not license.

That removal of protection was reversed in less than 24 hours, but it doesn’t matter. The whole thing was a Bad Idea disguised as good and reasonable. I am willing to mediate any negotiations, if someone on any of the sides involved here wants to try that. I’m easy to reach privately. Leaving a comment here and asking for anonymity will do it. I will see the comment and will not approve it. But trolls — i.e, accounts that troll — will be roasted for snacks.

On Gab you’re still lying calling me a Marxist or Antifa. After 6 years you’ve never provided any evidence for those false claims (impersonating me on fake accounts like you always do claiming to be a Marxist don’t count).Tobias (talk) 13:40, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

┌──────────────────────────┘

Funny how it’s always you whose the Marxist Antifa and not the real one lmao. Regarding the page, that page did contain personally identifying information, but I don’t personally think it was a Mikemikev sock given that accounts other edits. It could be Abd as you say, or it could be that Viharo person, or another third party *ahem*. Like I said, I don’t think it matters a lot. I gave up reading Reddit, but I read what was mentioned about it on the Cold Fusion site so I can see why you acted on it now. — NekoDysk 13:47, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

I have been accused of “defending” Mikemikev, again and again. I have never accused Oliver of being Marxist antifa, nor do I consider that plausible. Mikemikev may accuse people whatever he thinks may get a rise out of them, as D has been pointing out: it works.

RationalWiki, as a whole, has a habit of insulting trolls and vandals and banned users. Which is the strongest thing you can do to encourage them to keep it up, at least with males in adolescence and often beyond. (Stereotypically, women are more likely to sensibly walk away.) It’s probably genetic, a basic male survival trait.

I thank D for reading the site, at least some of it. I do have strong and relatively direct evidence that MrOrganic was Oliver. However, evidence can be misleading. It was certainly not me. It’s very unlikely it would be Viharo, it is totally the opposite of what he’d be interested in doing, and impersonation was not his game at all. (If MrOrganic was impersonating, he was impersonating the standard Smith brother argument, repeated, for example, by Skeptical on the article on me. So why would Viharo do that? It makes no sense, like many Smith arguments.) Mikemikev, at that point, also makes no sense.

But there is a possibility of a “third party.” It could be Darryl, but that is contradicted by the other evidence. Interests did overlap with Darryl some, but the brothers do that. There have been claims of another person involved. Might as well say the name, since for a long time Oliver has been claiming that his family is being attacked. But is it an attack to suggest that someone wrote material that has been alleged to be written by a Smith brother? Only if the material itself impeaches the person.

So the name is Adam L. Smith. Oliver and Darryl were born in 1990. Adam L. Smith is about five years older. I know nothing about Adam, other than his name in the household. I put the name here in case someone else can connect the dots. As well, the person I came to assume was Darryl used the name Leon Kennedy on Facebook (account since deleted), and Leon on another occasion. There have been hints of a third person complaining to the WMF, and probably living close to the Smiths.

However, it is highly unlikely this was MrOrganic, there are too many Oliver connections.

Another tidbit. 

Uh, hello? Anybody home? There is an obvious suspect for identity of KE, though, in fact, it could be many people, because Oliver has offended many over the years, and they accumultate. This is what KE posted. on Argumentum ad hominem

Case study

A person who’s too dumb to debate and gets so butthurt he resorts to one years long ad hominem is Oliver D. Smith. Ironically he does this on “Rationalwiki”.

This was blatant trolling, even though there is a truth behind it. Oliver’s arguments are often splendid examples of argumentum ad hominem. But there is no way that I’d post this to RatWiki. I don’t troll, except in very narrow circumstances for very specific purpose (in which case you will likely see fireworks, such as the desysopping of a Wikipedia administrator, which can be, eh, a tad difficult.) In any case, Oliver noticed and decided to correct it, he can be a bit obsessive about that.

12:27, 11 May 2019 Tobias (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Kerflicity Entwhistle (talk | contribs) with an expiration time of π×infinity! (account creation disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Ban evasion: it’s mikemikev)

I don’t know how Oliver was so sure that this was Mikemikev, unless he does know that I don’t troll like that. He’s claiming that I’m known for impersonation, so how would he know that this wasn’t me impersonating Mike impersonating Michael D Suarez or maybe Rome Viharo or Emil Kirkegaard. Or someone from Kiwi Farns? Or his brother poking him, as brothers sometimes do? In any case I can state with perfect confidence that it’s much more likely to be Mikemikev than me! So thanks, Oliver, every little bit helps.

I thought I might be finished but this went on and on.

For clarification Abd is mistaken about doxing. In 2017 there was an anti-dox policy on my name. Kirkegaard was banned in 2017 for doxing me (among other things) so that’s why MrOrganic’s doxing was deleted by Gerard after I sent an email complaint.

“Anti-dox policy.” No. Anti-dox practice. It could not be a policy. I once wrote about Rule 0 on Wikipedia. Rule 0 is the rule that you cannot mention. You can mention Rule 0, but not the content of it, as long as you don’t hint at the content.

Here Oliver has let us know that it was, in fact, he who sent the complaint and that Gerard hastened to protect him. Numerous users were banned for daring to mention the obvious. I’ve seen many places where account identification were made (i.e., User X is User Y), which is not “doxxing.” Oliver has done this routinely, I could find many examples.

Gerard dysopped me for blocking the user who is now being called an imposter and troll and doxxer. Oliver tells pieces of stories, pieces that back up the point he’s trying to make (which is usually that someone else is lying). He never tells the whole truth, the simple truth. He claims here that I am “mistaken,” but has not quoted what was actually wrong.

Contrary to Abd’s claims there was little public information about me on the internet in 2017 (aside from a troll page written by Mike on Enc Dramatica).

There was a lot of information. “Mike” on ED would be Michael D. Suarez, not mikemikev. There was Kiwi Farms. There was Rome Viharo’s blog. There was GethN7. And, of course, there were the Anglo Pyramidologist sock puppet investigations, which did not give the name. When I accidentally included a link in a page on SPA trolling, that included the name of Smith, a obscure user page study on Wikiversity, an avalanche of attacks descended, my contributions were being closely tracked, because I had interfered with the Smith agenda. This was not Oliver, I’m reasonaby sure. It was Darryl. I did not start using the name of Smith until I had verified much more evidence. But “you know you are over the target when the flak is the thickest.” I was threatened with massive harm if I simply continued collecting data.

So I knew.

Back then I didn’t really come public about my identity on RationalWiki which is why that anti-dox policy existed to protect me.

Makes sense. He’s not lying here. But . . . why a special policy to protect Oliver Smith from his name being mentioned, but not some of his targets? What Oliver is doing here is confirming Rome Viharo’s “conspiracy theory,” that involves David Gerard and others. Viharo had also tangled with Darryl Smith (as Goblin Face nee Dan Skeptic). Oliver only went after alleged racists and neo-Nazis, but that shaded into scientists working in intelligence research, allegedly hereditarians (and racists are generally hereditarian, but not all hereditarians are racists.)

I only identified myself from 2018 after Kirkegaard had gone around the internet writing various defamatory pages about me,

It’s not defamation if it is (a) true or (b) harmless. And he had definitely defamed Kirkegaard, and it was actionable.

hence that year I was on RWW and created a page about myself to counter the lies Kirkegaard was writing about me. RWW was though shut down and I don’t have any further interest in trying to counter lies about me on websites, for example I’ve never bothered with rebutting the VDARE hit-piece and I deleted an old response I made to Kirkegaard.Tobias (talk) 14:02, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Mmmm. Old response where?  Not on RatWiki. Oliver went on RatWikiWiki and started writing about me. And Kirkegaard. And Mikemikev. And himself. And what “lies” of Kirkegaard? Oliver could easily point to a Kirkegaard page and annotate “lies.” I do it all the time with hypothes.is.

However, it is much easier to just call it all “lies,” like a certain President and his “fake news.” I’ve asked Oliver again and again to confirm or deny account identifications. He always responded that it was too much trouble. It should be a few minutes work. (The number of his accounts has often been exaggerated, but there are many troll accounts difficult to identify with only one or two edits; still, I can identify most of the accounts on sight, quickly, so he could do it even more easily.

What I’ve told him again and again is that the way out of this mess is to tell the truth, the whole truth, not to keep claiming that other people are lying, even if they are wrong about this or that. That’s the way to say it, if you don’t want to look like a liar, yourself. “This was correct, but that was incorrect. Any questions?” And then answer the questions honestly. This is about fact, not interpretation. and I would say that Oliver desperately needs to learn the difference. It would save him a lot of grief.

People are mad now that I suppressed stuff doxxing you and not various edits doxxing others. Aw man, I can’t do everything all at once. — NekoDysk 14:09, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Who is “people”? I’m certainly not “mad.” I have a suspicion that Dysklyver is operating under some possibly difficult conditions, but I do not convert suspicion to belief. And I trust Dysklyver. The question here is not whether that was “doxxing” under the conditions then, but whether it was doxxing *now*, deserving suppression, where the only apparent “doxxing” was the name of “Smith.” There is an incongruity here, an inconsistency, but I don’t get mad about people being inconsistent. Nor do I call it hypocrisy. Rather, it can be something to look at, that’s all.

Michael Coombs and Abd both have articles here, so its not possible to dox them as all their information is already public.

I have not complained about doxxing. The examples I have seen where doxxing by Oliver was allowed were with much less known persons. I was arguably a public figure, and I revealed my legal name very early as a Wikipedian, because I have never been hiding, and I was writing on topics where, real world, people have been assassinated. I take the risk.

Michael Coombs may be a different story, but I have not investigated that. I’ve seen some shaky stuff, though. People have been real-world harassed, employers, etc. That’s a story for another day.

As for was their information public before their article creations: yes. Mike prior to his article here was already infamous for his trolling and a google search of his name produced lots of pages about him before the RationalWiki article; he’s got a Kiwi Farms thread that runs around 680 pages with 700,000 views.

This is all irrelevant, actually. None of this was about whether or not Mikemikev was doxxed. But Oliver makes up accusations and then answers them with furious argument.

Lomax also has a visible online presence, owns his own website and has written various autobiographical pages about himself across the internet. This was quite the opposite of me prior to 2018.Tobias (talk) 14:40, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

What one will find if one looks is that I’ve been visible since the 1980s, on-line. We can see in recent claims that I am supposedly “well-known” as a troll and impersonator, but in spite of intense internet activity beginning way back then, and amping up in the 1990s and later, accusation of trolling or harassment amounted to single incidents that one can find by intense search — and by ignoring the context.

Yes, Oliver was much more obscure, by comparison, under his real name. Hence the early documentation pages on him referred to his best-known early account, Atlantid, metapedia administrator. That’s where he tangled with Mikemikev, who was also admin there.

A final point: both these idiots Mike & Abd have tried several times to create an article about me here (although they got quickly deleted for being low quality and personal attacks), yet they moan I’ve had some involvement in editing their articles. Tobias (talk) 15:12, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

I never tried to create an article on Oliver on RatWiki. Is he lying or deluded? And does it make a difference? If he were honest, when he’s going to make a claim like that, he’d find a link. Memory is imperfect, we are human and become confused. However, he might be referring to a sock study. Long ago I copied that to a page here.

User:Abd/Anglo Pyramidologist

This was my first study of RatWiki “Anglo Pyramidologist” socks. As can be seen, it does not mention “Smith” anywhere. My identification skills were still primitive (but many socks are very, very obvious if one simply looks).

It was immediately proposed for deletion by Marky. It’s worth looking at, this sequence shows how the Smiths were operating. (It was deleted by Skeptical, i.e., Oliver)

As can be seen, there was no doxxing in the study. It was a list of suspected socks of “Anglo Pyramidologist.” To be clear, AP was the name on Wikipedia of the Sock Puppet Investigations case archive. The original Anglo Pyramidologist was Oliver, but this was not a claim that those accounts were Oliver, and I did not know at the time how to distinguish the two brothers. I also did not know at the time that the Smiths were under special protection, the “policy” Oliver mentions. The AfD has this argument:

Delete

Abd ul-Rahman Lomax‘s personal vendetta against a skeptical Wikipedia user who he seems to be stalking across the web. Not relevant to Rationalwiki. Marky (talk) 15:42, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Keep

User page study, only likely visible to someone following my contributions (as happened on wikiversity and meta). As created, and as nominated,[1], 34 minutes after creation, it only contained the name of Anglo Pyramidologist (the Wikipedia name for the sock family) and myself. Now, I have added a small fraction of the possible names, I suspect it will be hundreds. This is only a list of suspects for a user who claims to have been a major contributor to RationalWiki, and who has documented many supposed enemies of skepticism, with articles here. On Wikiversity, and on the meta wiki, he threw a screaming fit as he has thrown here upon the creation of this page.[2] The behavior was identical, the same themes. From my history on meta, I expect that 95% or so of these “suspected socks” will actually be AP socks. The outcome there was a massive series of global locks, and, on meta, semiprotection of my study pages. That could be appropriate here. Not my call. But meanwhile, my condolences to Skeptical. AP is insane. This is either two brothers, one saner than the other, or one person who can contain himself to avoid looking so cranky, until it breaks through. I have, as yet, no opinion on the old claim of “brothers.” I form opinions based on evidence, not on wishful thinking or emotional reactions, and not even on what a friend says. People make mistakes, we all do.

As to “mission,” this isn’t an article, but there are plenty of pages in RationalWiki that look at user behavior. I don’t think that AP is notable enough for an article, unless blog sources are to be used. (As they have been for me, so maybe.) This user has long outed others…. So far, nothing I’ve done actually outs him more than he has outed himself. –Abd (talk) 18:26, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

The situation at this point is that Marky had created the article on me and massive disruption has arisen (over the RW Smith Brothers conspiracy theory article).  So, somehow, my looking at RatWiki is “stalking a skeptical Wikipedia user all over the internet.” What skeptical user? AP pretends to be skeptical, may have made a business out of writing skeptical articles, it has been plausibly claimed (by him and others).

Oliver talks about “moaning.” That is troll-speak for describing a situation. What he claims I’m moaning about makes no sense. In context, I looked at the AP socks that had edited my arcticle, after Marky created it. That is just fact — if those are actually AP socks.  “Some involvement”, hah! Very involved, but so what? Oliver Smith evaded much detection by continually changing his accounts, without any apparent necessity. Users who do that are often up to no good. They are making it difficult to track them. They are hiding. Oliver now, is open, and it can be seen how he behaves, over time. RatWiki will choose to allow the continual drama, or not. Some people like it.

Well pretty good quality compared to the normal screed. :p I did suppress those a while back along the page Mike or someone wrote about me, which got deleted pretty quick. — NekoDysk15:17, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes. suppression log. Arthur_Kerensa

(I would not put his here if Dysklyver clearly does not conceal his identity, and I have offered before to redact stuff. He doesn’t care, and, in fact, I commend him. Hiding is no way to live. But there are costs as there always are with what is excellent.)

Stupid waste of time.

When you ban people, that is often what they do, take great pleasure in wasting your time. Some level of this is unavoidable, to be sure. But RatWiki has not learned from Wikipedia, which has also not always learned from their own history (because they keep losing the most experienced users, as they burn out from how inefficient the system is). Insulting trolls is a formula for generating more trolling. Much more.

Discussion here about Smith brother conspiracy theory. Lomax is still claiming User:John66 is somehow a “Smith brother”. No evidence ever presented.Tobias (talk) 15:30, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Well, I’ve presented it in great detail, but, now, who wants to know? If someone needs to know, they can ask me, and I will consider the situation and probably walk them through it. I’m not documenting that all over again just because an admitted liar and full-on troll claims “no evidence.” Why bring it up here?

But thanks to Oliver for the link to that discussion, where he lies profusely to the RatWiki community. Because these things tend to disappear, archive.is.

Ah but we all know that John66 is acktushally a sockpuppet of Bongolian. /s — NekoDysk 15:43, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Definitely. Oliver is schizophrenic and while he lives in England, his alter ego lives on the west coast of North America. I analyzed the letter frequencies in their posts and sorted them by revision number, and I found the coded message that revealed the entire evil plot. Hah! No evidence? They think they can hide from me?

March 12, 2019

Oliver keeps supplying more material. I’ve been working on his deceptions about impersonation socking on Encyclopedia Dramatica and RationalWikiWiki — and even Wrongpedia, here, still a draft: anglo-pyramidologist/blaming-it-all-on-mikemikev/

From the same thread:

Lomax is still blatantly lying on Reddit. As I explained above, there was an anti-dox policy on my name in 2017 hence anyone who mentioned my name, or surname was blocked and had their comment deleted to protect me. When two people accuse each either other of being liars – a 3rd party can easily check the truth and Lomax is clearly the liar e.g. there were dozens of accounts blocked for mentioning merely my surname in 2017. According to Lomax’s insane story I created an article here to dox myself (that I then emailed Gerard to delete for harassment). I honestly believe lying to him is a compulsion and he might not know he’s doing it because its so habitual for him.Tobias (talk) 18:31, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Tobias still claims that what could obviously not have been a “policy,” i.e., an open rule, was in place, and he would not have considered that this “policy” — actually simply common practice — would apply to him. And the purpose of the article was not to doxx, but to ridicule the “conspiracy theory,” and “Smith” would not be enough to actually dox. (See the argument in the AfD for that article, also deleted by David Gerard.)

Oliver is attempting to prove that I’m lying by claiming that I said things I did not say (which has been common). There were indeed many blocked for mentioning Smith. But MrOrganic mentioned Smith and was not blocked then. Except by me, incidentally, for a different reason. Why not, then? Because the article did not doxx him — read it! (unless he actually did link to the doxxing on Rome Viharo’s blog) his argument falls apart. As to lying, again, see this page, where I show — with strong evidence — that Oliver lied about impersonation socks, claiming that accounts that we now know for sure were him, were Mikemikev socks. That is straight-out lying, not merely a difference of interpretation (which Oliver often calls “Lies!”)

Oliver asserts that the article was deleted because of his email to Gerard, but we have no evidence that he sent such an email. He did email Gerard whenever he wanted assistance, but unless copies are provided we have only Oliver’s claim of what was in mails, and he has lied about emails (which I know because they were with me — and anyone can know because they were published more than a year ago, and Oliver certainly knew about that but never denied the mails were presented as they existed.)

Oliver does not understand how evidence and testimony work. Personal testimony, under oath, is legally admissible. What I write on the blog is not under oath, to be sure, but I have a reputation to protect for honesty, as a journalist, it is may major asset. I’m not going to lie to win some stupid argument!

All pages here are open for comment, and correction has always been corrected. Instead of pointing out errors, which would always be allowed from a subject, Oliver has, for a long time now, just cried “Lies!” He has no credibility, from that alone. But there is evidence rising to the level of proof linked from the page referenced above, that Oliver lies — or is truly deluded, not remembering what he did, or the like.

Yet more lies from Lomax (all this guy does is lie, lie and lie more…): “googling ‘Smith brothers conspiracy theory’ and you will find interesting stuff” — No all you find is his crazy blog filled with lies; page 2 of google search shows “John66 – Cold Fusion Community coldfusioncommunity.net/”. Googling Smith brothers conspiracy theory and you only get the lies he writes on his blog, with the exception of the deletion request to the old RW article. Virtually no one else is typing about this nonsense except him.Tobias (talk) 18:45, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Whether something is interesting or not is a matter of opinion, and would rarely be a lie. Oliver mentioned “Smith brothers conspiracy theory,” which, if he didn’t want this all to be visible, he’d not mention at all. But he is insane, that’s obvious! I simply pointed out what happens if you google the phrase. But it was “brother,” not “brothers,” because that’s how he had written it. What I do which drives him crazy is check out what he writes. He does not expect people to do that. He referred to Wrongpedia in an RWW page, I dug up the page. I don’t just assume he’s wrong. And I have done this kind of thing for many years. I actually research, find and point to evidence, before publishing analysis. And then he claims “no evidence.” Yeah, right!

Virtually no one else? Well, Oliver Smith is, a lot! I write for the future, and what does it matter if someone else is looking at what I write about? Oliver writes for the immediate argument he is trying to win. I don’t care about winning arguments. I learn more when I lose an argument, in fact, but that can be hard to come by! (To be more accurate, I don’t think in terms of winning and losing, I care about reality, and trust it, completely. I do not trust my own opinions, except provisionally, as operating hypotheses. What I trust fully is reality itself, it is actually my religion, and that of anyone who joins me in that trust.)

Perhaps that is the case now, but it is my understanding that at the time Rome Viharo was the main proponent of this idea and although I have my ideas, it is widely believed that it was Viharo who wrote the RationalWiki page on the Smith brothers conspiracy theory. — NekoDysk 20:58, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Dysklyver knows more than he says, which can be a mark of the wise. He is correct that “Rome Viharo” was an opinion then. That was incorrect, I have no doubt about that. It was the common Smith story that Rome was crazy and believed this “conspiracy theory,” and, in fact, Rome did connect what he’d seen with a kind of behind-the-scenes conspiracy. I don’t promote that, but I will say that there are hints, Rome is not crazy, but not necessarily informed well on details. He asserts from inconclusive evidence, which is not uncommon, is it?

Possibly. My main point is its bizarre to claim I created that article since I sent an email complaint to get it removed & I didn’t want my name mention on this wiki back then. Notice as well Lomax presents zero evidence for his wild allegations, yet is now creating Reddit threads to spread these lies about me. This is what I’ve had to put up with from this vicious troll now for years.Tobias (talk) 21:10, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Oliver asserts unverifiable evidence (the alleged email), as if not believing his unverifiable claims is “wild.” Oliver has admittedly been creating articles on people for years, full of defamation or, at best, presentation of facts about people to put them in the worse possible light.

I was viciously attacked when I protected a Wikiversity user and the academic freedom of that site, and when I blow the whistle, and tell the truth, with evidence, I’m called “King of the trolls.” These are fascists, they hate freedom of expression and are intolerant of diversity.

How does it feel, Oliver? I have not done with you what you have done with others. I have not exaggerated, and I have afforded you full opportunity to respond, without a 24-hour deadline under impossible conditions, as you gave Mikemikev, quite arrogantly.

Thanks for the link to the Reddit thread. Every bit helps.  Expect more if there is more drama. That subreddit is for the uncensored discussion of RatWiki activity. It will be fairly moderated, that’s a commitment. But trolling by throwaway accounts will not be tolerated. Differences of opinion are not trolling, and if anyone doesn’t know what trolling is, ask. Trolling is deliberate, or it is not trolling, it might merely be stupid or ignorant.

And then he added a little more:

Sometimes it’s hard to distinguish between these idiots. For example on some accounts you blocked as “Abd/Mike” and I’ve also confused these two, or if we add RV or another possible troll, three; Lomax then latches onto this and screams on his blog “I’M A PROVEN LIAR!!!” etc when I misidentify his for Mike’s sockpuppet or vice-versa. The reality is they’re both very similar creating countless sockpuppets here and engaging in creating fake accounts and impersonations.Tobias (talk) 21:30, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Oliver is a proven liar, but over things where he would clearly know the truth. Here, he either does not mention or covers up that his brother has done a great deal of impersonation socking that Oliver blamed on Mikemikev (or sometimes the Reddit socks claim it was all me, who is behind them? Unlikely it’s Mikemikev, Oliver claims they are not him, but that does leave Darryl).

I do not consider an identification error a “lie.” Oliver does, all the time. And he does even when it is not an error!

Suggestion: do not proclaim as fact what is only weak speculation. Be honest. If you suspect, say you suspect. Oliver has called statements of suspicion “Lies.” That is a hysterical over-reaction. If someone suspects, and states the suspicion, it is not a lie unless they know for a fact that it is wrong. This extreme Oliver reactivity is part and parcel of his insanity.

And, my guess, he believes that since others are “lying” about him, it’s acceptable to lie about them. But lies contaminate the liar. If you lie in return, the Father of Lies wins.

I have not edited RationalWiki for months. I started at one point to list all my edits. I may take that up again. There is an exception. I create accounts for investigation. These accounts are never disruptive, are not intended to be visible. Those, I will not disclose unless legally necessary. I have not created accounts on RatWiki to spam or to be disruptive or to troll. But once in a while I might poke someone, to test reaction, to learn from this, which can be a form of trolling. This is actually quite rare. But if I find any, I will disclose those.

Trolls are routinely blocked unless they are supported by the mob. If an account is trolling, it is almost certainly not me. Posting links to my blog has not been done by me for a very long time. But, again, if I’ve done it, I’ll list it.

Nearly all accounts claimed to be mine on RW were not.

If I am correct, Mikemikev is creating many accounts, that’s a long-term behavior, I think. And that is normal at his age, in fact. When a young man is told he must go away, shut up, he will often do the opposite, which is why it is a very bad idea to insult trolls. Unless you want more trolling.

Certainly Mikemikev might point to this blog, here or there. I have never asked him to do this, nor would I. Now, this is the paradox here. RationalWiki documents “pseudoscience” and “conspiracy theories,” and I am allegedly promoting a conspiracy theory. So why not coverage of this on RatWiki?

I think the answer relatively obvious, but it’s not certain, and the matter is complex.

Tobias went on and on and on. Too much to copy. He pointed out some possible errors on other pages, but I’d have to remember what they were and can’t be arsed. I commented on the rest of his ravings here.

End of the road

This got even crazier, and Oliver got himself banned from RatWiki. See Oliver Discord fiasco

He completely bollixed his last chance, for basically nothing but shooting off his mouth about his paranoia. I suppose it’s a compulsion. As they said on the Discord server, this guy needs help, in a big way. I find it sad, because Oliver is merely insane, Darryl, whom Oliver was trying to protect, is downright vicious. He may be a tougher nut to crack. But it can be done.

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