RvD trial day 4: settled!

All claims and counterclaims withdrawn. Jury dismissed. Here is my account of what happened in court today. These notes are not much edited.

I arrived at 9:10 AM. There was the appearance of a hearing with something missing, two plaintiff attorneys (probably), one woman sitting on the defendant side, nobody saying anything. Altonaga  sitting on the bench, waiting.

Eventually a man walks in and sits down next to the woman. Altonaga has a brief exchange with him and sets a hearing for Friday and they leave.

In the Gallery: Lukacs, Bernstein, Nunez. De la Barra and Johnson walked in at 9:15.

Then Altonaga called Rossi v Darden and told the attorneys they could set up. Altonaga left the courtroom, then it was “all rise” at 9:20 and she came back. Darden walked in with Erika Handelson., Lomax and Pace.

Lukacs asked the Judge for fifteen minutes to confer with Pace. She said, “brief, please,”  as I recall. They went out together.

Chaiken and Lomax walked out. Rossi came in. Annesser came in at 9:25. Chaiken came back in, started setting up four display boards, for the timeline again. Bernstein walked in with a box of sticky tags to use as markers on the timeline, as before.

If that timeline is used during testimony, I’d think of objecting to it. It is a form of argument. But I don’t know precedent.

Rise for the jury at 9:30.

Lukacs and  Pace came in, Lukacs started to say something, and Altonaga shushed him, the jury was coming in. Lukacs and Pace walk back to the Judge and go into her chambers, and she joins them. She comes out and sends the jury out for 15 minutes.

Lukacs was whispering to Rossi and other counsel. The entire Rossi team walked out. (There are two attorney conference rooms off the courtroom entry way.) Bell and Pace walk out. Chaiken stood in extended friendly conversation with Lomax. Bernstein walked up and shook Lomax’s hand. They are smiling. Darden remained sitting, not interacting with anyone. Serious face. The 3rd party counsel remain seated. Chaiken and Lomax continue to whisper and smile. Chaiken walks out, Bell walks in for a moment. Then Nunez and Bernstein whisper. Nunez appears bemused.

Whatever is going on, it doesn’t look like Bad News. The timeline was better lined up this time. Bell walks in, whispers to Lomax, smiling. Lukacs comes in an calls on Nunex and de la Barra to come out.

This was high drama, while being very quiet. It’s obvious what is happening. They are discussing settlement, at least of some issues. They have made enough progress to pull in the 3rd party attorneys.

Erica and Lomax chat, Nunez walks in smiling. All return. Lukacks asks me to leave (apparently by name, because Pace asked “which Lomax, both are named Lomax.”) But I’d immediately risen to go, because I knew what was happening. This was to be a brief closed hearing. Pace said to me, “Ill talk with you later.” I sat on the comfortable foam cushions in the central area of the 12th floor, looking at the view, completely pleased. Sure, we want the truth, but at what cost? We already, speaking for the public, know enough to have a good sense of what happened, of the reality of this history, if anyone wants to know, the information is there. If people don’t want to know, even a jury decision won’t convince them. “Punishment” has low value.

I noticed that a man who had been there, off and on, was sitting outside also. I walked over to him and ask him his connection with the case. This was Darden’s son, also named Tom. We chatted about the case and the appearance that it was settling. Darden came out and I mentioned I’d like to talk with him or part of the IH team before I left Miami. He had me give my phone number to his son. Then the jury walked out, obviously dismissed.

Lukacs came out and I asked him if he could make any statement about  what is going on. “I’m not at liberty to say” Rossi walked out and I shook his hand and he warmly returned it. Pace chatted with me for a minute. He wanted to be very careful, but he said that the obvious was happening. He said that he would be releasing a statement later. My sense was that there were no conditions to the settlement, the complaint was dropped and likewise the countercomplaints. Over. Finished.

Darden was philosophical. He was, here, accepting a loss of about $20 million, but Darden, with Cherokee, certainly risks that level of investment commonly, and risk implies that sometimes one will lose. In fact, though, LENR won, because the bold move to invest about  $20 million in Rossi technology created a movement that raised, for that purpose, through IHHI, $50 million. Their goal was to find out about Rossi’s claims. Reasonably enough, they found out.

Until I see it officially announced, I cannot be 100% sure that Rossi v. Darden settled on day 4 of the trial, returning to status quo ante. I don’t know if the dismissal was with or without prejudice, by my sense is that it would be with prejudice. However, I’d assign a probability of full dismissal at 99.9%. Good enough for folk music.

Okay, it’s now in the docket as 332. The “case settled.” We have no official details other than that.  I expect to see a joint stipulation in short order that will give a little more detail. Probably ”

What does this mean?

It means a lot and it means less than many are saying. My report,  above, is being repeated with what is standard: it is interpreted favorably to existing opinions. There is good legal analysis on LENR Forum  by woodworker and Mike Dunford (both lawyers, IANAL). I wrote that Darden was pensive. I will emphasize that this was the appearance: both sides were ready to start with the evidentiary phase of the trial. Chaiken was setting up his timeline (which might have been shot down as argumentative, but the trial never got to that point). It was all business. Darden looked pensive.. He might look that way if he had mild indigestion, and this could be totally meaningless. Frankly, I wasn’t looking forward to what would come next: a series of useless evidences that even if completely true would be irrelevant except within a highly misleading context.

I.e., say, Rossi had proof!, proof, I tell you, that someone in Cherokee was happy about the Agreement with Rossi, in a private memo. Darden is the CEO of Cherokee, and IH’s business was consistent with the long-term goals of Cherokee, but Cherokee never starts risky ventures directly, it always does it through liability-limited companies, otherwise the entire $2.2 billion entity could be pulled down by a single error. Instead, CIP, with true Cherokee LLCs, invests maybe $25 million, which is what they have at risk. These LLCs are independent, attract their own investors, may take out loans, all normal business. Some — a few — ultimately fail,  but Cherokee never is itself at risk beyond their investment. That is absolutely necessary and normal for the kind of business they do.

So Chaiken would be taking a document out of context. He’d combine it with another alleged fact he had. Half of the original $1.5 million was paid from Cherokee. If Cherokee were the full owner, as Rossi claims to have believed, they wouldn’t have paid half, they would have paid the full amount. Rather, this was almost certainly a loan to Darden, personally guaranteed, and I’d bet he paid interest at the statutory rate. These guys are not stupid!  None of this would be legally adequate to overcome the standard Entire Agreement clause of the Agreement and the Statute of Frauds, all of which is intended to prevent legal disputes like this.

I am trained to create excitement and connection. I noticed my reaction to what was coming and deliberately dropped it. In that process, for a short time, my face may have shown something like an upset stomach.

Darden’s countenance did not telegraph that he thought they were going to lose, which is a claim being made on ECW.

The appearance was that Lukacs initiated the out-of-the-courtroom  discussion with Pace. That could be misleading. I have no strong evidence that Pace did not privately say something to Lukacs, with then Lukacs merely being the one to ask the Judge for delay in starting the presentation of evidence to the jury. That was initially delaying the jury entry. Altonaga wasn’t eager for delay, she asked Lukacs to be quick. It is very clear, though, that this was not pre-arranged. There was no sudden shift in mood, not immediately. Altonaga waited about 15 minutes, then told us to rise for the jury. Lukacs and Pace came back in and Lukacs addressed the court. His comment was not intelligible to me. Altonaga told him to wait, the jury was coming in. Then, when the jury was seated, Lukacs and Pace approached the bench,  then went back into the judge’s chambers, and she went there as well. She came back and sent the jury into a 15 minute recess. Then came much scurrying in and out of lawyers and parties. The courtroom was very quiet, if I was close to attorneys whispering, mostly I still couldn’t hear anything. But the mood brightened quite visibly and attorneys from opposing sides were smiling at each other, sharing what, I noted at the time,  did not “look like Bad News.” To anyone.

(Some have claimed that this was based on lawyers gleefully anticipating  being paid. See below about anti-lawyer bias. If what they wanted was more money, this wouldn’t be good news. If what they want is client benefit — which is what their ethical standards require — this was good news for everyone, assuming that there were no poison pills included. Good News compared to fighting to the bitter end. Far less stressful.)

When the 3p attorneys were called out, it had gone beyond obvious without anything being said. A settlement was being negotiated. From the context, I knew it had to be simple and decisive. Altonaga would not tolerate less, I’m sure. It would leave the parties free to negotiate anything they wanted that they could agree upon without legal coercion. It could not seriously damage any party, because they would otherwise prefer to finish what had been started — at great expense!. But it would almost certainly not involve any payment, meaning that all parties would bear their own expenses. As soon as significant compensation or other changes would enter the picture, it would get complicated. They could have asked the Judge to delay the trial a day so they could work out a more complex agreement. My sense of Alttonaga is that she would not have accepted that. So it had to be simple, something that both Rossi and IH could accept, and the 3p attorneys would accept (though I’m not sure they would have had the power to stop it.)

I doubt if there was any specific agreement regarding paying legal costs (other than something very simple like “parties to bear their own costs.”) I had a few words with IH counsel before this was complete. Somehow in that, I don’t remember who said it, I got that what was being proposed was total, mutual, dropping of legal claims, very simple, with everything else being subject to direct agreement of the parties outside of court (which would be, essentially, return to status quo ante). Lukacs was able to convince Rossi probably on the strength of his personal reputation and an assurance that there would be good-faith negotiations. (This is radically different from what Annesser had done in December 2015, when he threatened IH with suit for “anticipatory breach of contract.” Pugnacious, what some people think attorneys should be.)

As soon as Rossi wrapped his head around the possibility, I’m sure he’d feel an immediate sense of impending relief.

Lukacs and Pace returned and prepared to address the court. At that point, Lukacs asked that I be sent out, apparently by name (because of a question by Pace about “which Lomax”)?

Getting up to go (I did not wait until the Judge ordered me out, I knew she would grant the request to close the court), I was close to Pace and he said to me, “I’ll talk with you later.”

Outside, I eventually asked who the other man sitting out was, and he, (Darden’s son) told me. We talked about the case and the apparent settlement. There were mixed feelings. He — and I — were looking forward to resolution, and this was a bit like charging out into a battlefield, ready to fight, some believing the enemy was evil and had fangs, and someone blows the whistle and says, “Game over, shake hands and go home!” What? Shake hands with Satan?

Yes. Shake hands with that other human being, now, either work together to build a better future for all of us, or stand back and allow others to do  that. Don’t keep fighting, it is the fighting and hatred that is Satan’s work. This is all long-term ontology for me, and training.

At some point Darden came out and was talking with us. I said some things about the settlement and about IH future. He said, “Smart man.” Darden does not say a lot, is not chatty, but conveys confidence. If you don’t trust him, don’t invest with him! He’s not going to argue. If needed, he has others to do that for him, called lawyers. Try to go and tell Bill Gates he’s stupid for supporting LENR research. See if you can even get those words to his ears. He has experts to filter information flow. He is not Donald Trump, even though he’s richer. Heh! Sorry, Trump fans, but I think you could agree that Trump is not Gates. If not, my condolences, it takes all kinds.

When the jury walked out we knew that it was over. There was no way  that Altonaga was going to allow any delay in the trial, she was already fried and wanted to clear her docket ASAP. If they wanted to dicker over terms, fine. Let them dicker, out of court, but not delay the trial.

Then Pace came out and came up to me. Man of his word. We talked a little. Lukacs came out and I asked if he could comment. That is when he said he was not at liberty to comment  Now, here is where I can see a strong difference between Pace and Lukacs. Lukacs was blunt, pure business. I knew that what he was saying was probably legally necessary. I did not resent it, and, in fact, I smiled and thanked him. He was not smiling. He was like a surgeon who had just extracted a life-threatening tumor in an operation painful to the patient, who is totally focused on  being a doctor and dealing with the physical. I see Lukacs as highly professional, but not necessarily a people person. Whatever people skill he has — and they must be considerable in some ways — he wasn’t using them with me. Just saying. He did nothing wrong.

Pace essentially told me the same thing, but in a way that would normally generate positive feelings. He showed by his affect that he was friendly and would like to tell me what was happening, but he said that he needed to wait to be sure, “as a caution.” At some point Lomax told me that he was intending to provide me the daily court transcripts. I asked him to send them to me anyway, please. And he said he would. This would be a neutral contribution that he and Jones Day could provide my work. I was planning to also ask Rossi counsel for that.

When the jury walked out, it was completely obvious that the case was over, even though Altonaga did not have a marshal tell those outside that they could come back in. I went back in, and the courtroom was almost empty. Rossi’s counsel had all walked out carrying boxes of stuff.

Now, on LENR Forum, to some degree, in comments here, to some degree, and more on e-catworld.com, there are those creating fantasies of what the “settlement” was, and then, generally, declaring a huge victory for Rossi, assuming that the License cancellation would stand (neglecting that this unilateral action had been ignored by IH and correcting this had not been a dismissed claim of theirs. Why waste legal time and money over a nullity? It’s moot unless IH attempts to rely on the License, which is very unlikely, unless Rossi actually does hit the market, then it could be worth billions, so … worth even huge legal expenses, and with a slam-dunk case (which we have seen, even slam-dunks sometimes don’t go through the basket, but people at this level are constantly playing the odds as they read them. Relatively disempowered people look for certainties and even prefer to pretend them, and the dysfunction behind this is common and training to overcome that is rare. There is very little genuine certainty in life, but some of us are afraid of that and attempt to deny it.)

Mary Yugo actually made a decent comment on why this is. “She,” however, is probably operating with the instinctive responses being “wrong.” Rather, they are, as pointed out, functional in emergencies but then can disempower us if maintained beyond emergency conditions. In my training, the emergency response is called an “amygdala hijack,” and it is quite visible and recognizable, and also easily handled, but not by declaring it “wrong,” which then sets up an internal power struggle, and the amygdala is designed to always win this struggle, it literally hijacks the entire structure of the mind. Rather, the amygdala is a primitive machine, but it understands language and is programmable. Actually doing this, programming the amygdala, can look like a miracle. When the amygdala is active, the entire and vast associative engine of the cerebral cortex is turned to the service of the emergency response. It will find “proof” that it is “right,” and may go to extreme lengths to preserve identity, faced with what it sees as a challenge. The simplest solutions can be practically invisible, because of this activity.  In a word, reactivity can make us stupid.

To accept what I think was the actual “settlement,” something very simple was necessary,  that Rossi had in his power, in theory, even before he filed the suit in April, 2016. Rossi had to give up his attachment to “being right.” He had to let go. There is a predictable result from this, I’ve seen it hundreds of times: an enormous relief and a transformative increase in joy and power. You can see this in JONP. Someone has also reported that Rossi is “Happy, happy.” (An unattributed rumor passed on by someone who is sometimes accurate, on LF.) From that, conclusions are being drawn that Rossi must have gotten what he wanted.

While we cannot at this time know if there were any stated conditions, they were not, I’m sure, stated in court and would not be legally binding. The most I expect was actually agreed in court was the withdrawal of the claims and counterclaims, the dismissal of the case, with prejudice. If you were worried for a year that you might not only not get what you wanted, but might end up essentially screwed, bankrupt, and then it all goes away, because you are willing to let go of what was driving it, being very happy would be normal. Even if you aren’t getting what you wanted.  Manic attachment to declared purpose is not a formula for happiness, it’s the opposite. Even if one “wins,” sometimes. Happiness, genuine happiness, comes from a realm that is not the realm of right and wrong, good and bad, but that is simply present to life. Rossi can now enjoy playing tennis with his wife. And his wig looked nice. Life is good. His work is fun.

Planet Rossi has expressed some amazement that I didn’t attack or lash out at Rossi. That is because they largely bought a world-view that I was a paid FUD-er. Some of them still repeat that charge as if it was proven and admitted. But it has been continually denied, ever since the issue was first raised, and all this means is that people will often believe what makes them feel most secure. I do not allow my security to depend on fact and conditions. It depends on trust in reality, only,  independent of conditions. That, again, is training, though it is also connected with what I’ve been studying since my twenties. I recommend, highly, declaring and standing for a full and complete trust in reality itself. It’s not necessarily easy, even though it is obviously necessary for true security. I’m going to die. That’s not bad news! I might be wrong about this or that, various ideas about reality, but what I trust is not my ideas, but reality itself.

I am also human and become afraid, but when I remember the commitment, the fear vanishes.

My impressions of the settlement are informed, I was a few feet away when it happened, and talked with some of the players. That impression includes that there might be additional voluntary agreements.  There are some simple ones that might either have been negotiated, involving claims in the lawsuit that a good mediator may have been able to turn quickly into agreement. Most likely, though, any complications would have prevented full and complete agreement in the short time available.

The fact of withdrawal of claims cannot be used to show anything that was not already obvious from the known evidence and I see no way to assume what was in any binding agreements, other than an assumption that if these were seen as harmful to any side, the settlement would have failed.

I intend to continue organization of case evidence, including presenting opinion, but “attacking” Rossi has never been my agenda, rather, it has been to share evidence and my sense of implications. There are those in the various communities involved who are still fighting the war. They will continue to make themselves unhappy and will not contribute to the future of LENR. They will not help Rossi nor IH. IH never wanted this fight. Dewey Weaver’s opinion — and I like Dewey — was never more than his informed opinion plus his own personal reactions.

When I wrote the first draft of this page, I mentioned expanding it “when I got home” That meant when I was back at the apartment where I am staying. I intend to continue organizing the case material when I am back in Northampton, probably next week.

Update, July 20, 2017

I have the Day 4 transcript.

It generally confirms my impressions. There are two minor differences:

When Lukacs asked to speak with defense counsel, it was not just Pace, it was also Bell. I’m not surprised, but apparently I didn’t notice it at the time. Why Bell? Probably for the same reason as was behind Lukacs making the request. A less involved attorney, less committed to the fray. I had some brief, pleasant conversation with Bell. Very nice guy. Same with Pace, by the way.

Then there is this interchange, when Altonaga had sent the jury out for a recess because of the request by Lukacs and Pace.

(A recess was taken from 9:30 a.m. to 9:55 a.m.)
MR. LUKACS: Sir, would you mind excusing yourself?
GALLERY SPECTATOR: Yes.
MR. LUKACS: I was just asking him to leave for a
moment.

I think the recorder missed something. This wasn’t me, this was probably Tom Darden, the son. Just before this, Lukacs asked for Mr. Lomax to leave, by name. Pace said “There are two Lomaxes.” I did not reply, I just left, because, obviously, Lukacs was referring to me.

 

Author: Abd ulRahman Lomax

See http://coldfusioncommunity.net/biography-abd-ul-rahman-lomax/

70 thoughts on “RvD trial day 4: settled!”

    1. Yes. It was amazing to watch. Zero to settled in about fifteen minutes, not much more. I will now write up the details of what I saw. There is still no official announcement as far as I’m aware, but obvious is obvious, and I have informal confirmation. The final clue: the jury leaving, obviously dismissed. All lawyers smiling broadly, on all sides.

        1. Rigel is not happy I wanted that bug squashed. Not captured in a cup and put outside to be free. I wonder how many people/puppets will drop off now?

          1. Rigel, call me. I don’t have my main email system with me, so I don’t have your number. I expect at this point to arrive in Silver Spring on Saturday. I need to change my ticket from much later, so I’m not sure yet.

        2. Even Tasmanian devils need to eat. Why would we want to deprive them of their natural sustenance?

          1. because that beast is damaging LENR.
            Rethinking, the conclusion is the worst for LENR.
            sure no evidence of LENR, but no evidence of fraud is stamped by a jury.
            Kids can still believe in Santa, and Santa is free to defraud yet another mum in Sweden.

            I cannot defend publicly LENR, I’m ridiculed by this story.
            Worst than the story, the way the community reacted show we can swallow any incredible story. Good day for Mary.

            I believe in LENR because of the evidence, not because it is cool, and this kind of story full of kid who believe in Santa make us looks like kids who believe in Santa.

            8(

            someone have to prove his point and it have to be stamped by an authority, what ever it is.

          2. While I understand your position, you are also inventing stories that will disempower you, and showing that you are maintaining a weak stand. You think LENR needs defense, and you now think that you cannot defend it. Why not? I feel no impact at all from the Rossi affair, other than positive empowerment, but, then, in mercato veritas. LENR does not need “defense,” it needs funding. What provides funding for research and development is the real defense, not argument and appearances and belief. I don’t “believe in LENR.” I have concluded, and have expressed in writing, in a peer-reviewed journal, that the preponderance of the evidence supports the reality of the FP Heat Effect, and that helium evidence supports this and that it is LENR. That is testable. It does not depend on “belief.” Skeptics, I have found, may disagree with my conclusions about “preponderance,” but genuine ones generally agree with the approach to testing the hypothesis.

            The judgment of a jury might move some cash around, that’s about it. This case was not about the reality of LENR. Scientific reality is not established by juries; rather, juries make socially-effective decisions based on many factors, and juries can err, including being subjected to the presentation of misleading evidence that seems plausible to them. The system works, reasonably well, for deciding what society will enforce, but, remember, Pons and Fleischmann sued in an Italian court for libel, and they were probably libeled. They lost. What did that prove?

            (In fact, it proved that they were probably foolish to sue, reactive, but that is second-guessing them with 20-20 hindsight.)

            Rossi’s harm to LENR, controversial from the start, has been killed by IH standing up to his lawsuit. The facts are there if someone wants to study them. I will be organizing the evidence to make it more accessible. Care to assist?

            This suggested task involves becoming a servant of the community and of consensus, rather than simply pursuing one’s own opinion. You get to keep your opinions, just don’t let them dominate you. Recognize the difference between fact and opinion. Fact is verifiable, independently. Opinion is only verifiable weakly, i.e., if others seem to agree.

            This has absolutely nothing to do with Rossi. Rossi was a huge distraction. IH decided to find out the reality, and to do that, needed to take a risk of about $20 million. While they did not ultimately resolve the reality question, which is quite difficult, proving a negative, they did find out enough and we know enough, now, to remove the presumption of reality from the fact that responsible adults had invested. We now know what they found and claim to not have found. So if someone now invests in Rossi, without being aware of all this, they are fools, not doing due diligence. And anyone can point this out, this has not become forbidden.

          3. The evidence are overwhelming on both subject, that LENR is real, and Rossi a liar, but who will hear you after that barnum.

            Who will just let you a room for a talk, a minute for a call?

            We had already a doubt, a lack of authority stamping about LENR evidence, “why is there no peer reviewed paper un nature?”…
            now there is “you are a believer in Rossi”, whatever I say myself…

            I’m disarmed, my sword is blunt.

          4. Alain, this is quite simple. If you want power, take full responsibility for your own “sword being blunt”. If you blame someone else, they are responsible, not you, or you can think so, and if you think so, you will have no power. The path to power is the acceptance of responsibility.

          5. let’s says it is a sharp phone call for those who can, to definitively publicly solve the affair.
            Rossi, whatever he have, have maintained a cloud of doubt, neither have nor not have. this cloud is toxic.

            Execution or implementation.

  1. Well if there were smiles on all sides then I’m happy.

    I hope the settlement was somehow a good one for all those involved. I look forward to your insights later.

    And thank you Abd for being our eyes and ears there.

    Well tomorrow is a new chapter. I wonder what it will bring.

  2. So – the issue is – who is gagged and in what way!

    I’m not surprised they settled, $15M is a lot of legal fees and IH would likely not get them all back from Rossi even if they won (has he got that much money?).

    But the key thing will be what is the PR from this going to be, and will Rossi be able to continue his deceptive ways…

    THH

    1. Lukacs said he was not at liberty to talk about it. That does suggest that there are gag orders in place, which means there was a settlement rather than a simple withdrawal of the original complaint.

      1. It does not indicate that. There would be no “gag order,” but neither party would want another party to be crowing about “we won” or “the bad guys lost.” I was there more or less standing in the middle. I have a strong impression that it was a simple leaving off of fighting in court instead of simply coming to agreements. Lukacs is expert at mediation. His comment was no surprise to me. Return to status quo ante means, among other things, that we, the public, no longer have such access to details. From my long-term and then face-to-face impressions of Darden, he would not be willing to pay — any more– for “fake.” But he would make a practical decision if the cost/benefit and probabilities favored it. I know there are people who want to see Rossi punished. I don’t. When I shook Rossi’s hand and wished him well, I meant it. I’d like to imagine that my presence, smiling at everyone, helped him let go enough to consider what had seemed impossible before, settling, coming to voluntary agreements, which is, simply, a better way to live. If Rossi wanted the License back, he could offer to buy it back. They could counteroffer, and then they could find an agreement without someone holding a big stick, threatening the other.

        I reread the original comment. Yes, this was not a simple withdrawal of one complaint. This was a mutual withdrawal, including the 3rd party complaints. To take place as it all did, in a few minutes, it had to be simple.

    2. I have nothing nice to say. So I will be brief ‘ ‘

      /Oh and Dewey is a stinker! This is a victory for that old rascal everyday he can gloat.

  3. There might not be any ‘settlement agreement’. If Rossi withdrew his suit, IH would have to decide if it’s worth the lawyer fees to chase a counterclaim and (wisely) just dropped their counter suit realizing there’s nothing Rossi has left to get.

    1. I think IH was destined to lose because they couldn’t discredit Penon. They settled for something less than the 89 million and let go of their licensing rights as payment for the rest of the 89 million.

      1. IH did not lose. While it’s not official, and Rossi is claiming the the “terms of the settlement” are confidential, that claim is consistent with my experience, but I will say more. What I saw and heard and the conditions indicates to me the the settlement was terminally simple: no terms other that Rossi drops his claims and IH dips theirs. The appearance was strong that this was st the initiative of Lukacs. It was not planned. Now, I’m not completely sure. But both legal teams were ready to go, setting up. I try on the scenario that Darden asked Pace to talk with Lukacs and it doesn’t fit. Lukacs is apparently a specialist in mediation. He saw a possibility that would benefit his client, preventing continue harm, and went for it. The first thought I had is that he was the adult supervision. He cut the Gordian knot, and the hardest part was probably getting through to Rossi.

        Reports are that Rossi is extremely happy to have this monster off his back.

        This is what I assume unless further information appears. All claims dropped on both sides. It is as if the suit was never filed. All parties bear their own costs. The action of the Agreement was the consent of counsel to settlement without any court order other than dismissal, which is final. No agreements are included, but the parties may agree to whatever they choose to agree upon. So unless they agree otherwise, IH still has the License. (Rossi’s cancellation was a nullify that IH ignored. A license is not cancelled unilaterally unless the Agreement allows that, and it didn’t. It is not cancelled because a later, contingent payment is not paid, that is merely a debt, again, unless the Agreement provides otherwise.

        Rossi says the war is over. Imagine what that feels like for him. He didn’t lose, he merely didn’t win what he wanted.

        1. But it’s not so simple as all claims dropped on both sides. Who owns the IP? IH claims they own it with their $11.5M investment. Rossi claims that failure to pay $89M for the GPT negates any claim. The money is probably gone but the IP (however one values it) still remains. Rossi is now back to working on his E-Cat/QuarkX, whatever that means. Maybe the joint presser will answer.

          Good job by the way with the reporting. Maybe you missed your calling!

          1. Thanks. Peter, allow me to make a friendly observation: your thinking is badly clouded by something. It can happen to any of us. If you want to move beyond that, consider carefully! What you think you know isn’t so. If all claims are dropped, the situation returns to what existed before, i.e., the Agreement, the First Amendment, and whatever other agreements actually existed (rather than merely being proposed). What we have gained from the lawsuit applies to us as the public, we know far more than we did in March, 2016. That is not cancelled.

            “Owns the IP” is not a crisp concept. Read the Agreement, it governs, and if you don’t understand it, you don’t understand the situation. “IP” is “fuzzy.” What matters is not ownership, that’s fuzzy, but legal right to use., which isn’t fuzzy In understanding the right, whatever Rossi claimed in the lawsuit has become moot. He cannot reassert those claims, legally. So he could not use them as a basis for a unilateral cancellation of the License and have that be sustained by any court. That is in addition to the fact that the License did not provide for any cancellation for nonpayment of the $89 million. Rather, it would simply be an uncollected debt. If the license were actually valuable, think about it! Cancellation would make it worthless, thus creating an inability to raise the money to pay. Total stupidity. If Rossi wanted to cancel the License, the proper remedy would be to obtain that result through legal action. He did not ask for cancellation of the license, and, at this point, even if he had, it would likely have failed.

            Some of us may get all this confused with repossession of property when, say, loan payments are missed. A written promise to pay is “consideration” the same as cash or check (which is effectively a promise to pay). The transaction, backed by consideration, is not, then, unilaterally cancellable, unless one condition applies, which you have missed. A right of repossession will be in the loan contract, or, in this case, if it existed, in the License agreement. There is no such clause, so that right does not exist. Don’t confuse yourself by fuzzy concepts of “fairness.” What I’m saying is, in fact, equitable, and there can be remedies if unfairness arises. Unilateral declaration — unless allowed in the Agreement — is not among them.

            If there are contrary terms of the settlement agreement, those would control, if enforceable. But we are talking about the situation that there were no terms beyond mutual dropping of claims and perhaps not to talk about it.

        2. Abd,

          Anyone can nitpick. It doesn’t take much talent. Even IH changed their wording regarding the E-Cat rights from “owning the IP” to “acquiring certain rights” to the IP. I think my question was clear.

          As to the reading of the agreement, there are those that claim that the IP is only transferred if the full $100M or so was paid. I don’t subscribe to that interpretation–rights to the IP was transferred with the $11.5M payment in my view but it was an issue at the time of t

          I was looking for additional information that you might have. I guess the best thing to do is wait for any official word on the IP rights. Or maybe there is another court case looming regarding exactly what the Agreement means?

    2. Rossi would not have dropped his suit without some benefit to that action, probably more than not paying more legal costs. Not having to defend against civil fraud claims would be a benefit. Making a criminal perjury prosecution less likely — and remember, it the evidence appears to support a perjury claim, a conviction might happen even if one did not actually testify falsely, especially if one was not telling “the whole truth” — would be a major benefit.

  4. Big win for the Rossi effect and the leonardo Corp. Big loss for I/h they will lose the ip and anything to do with e cat
    Possible trillion in the marketplace .

    1. Clovis – if as Abd says all sides drop their suits then IH still have the IP. As does Rossi, he has (and always has had) the ability to steam ahead with commercialisation in Europe.

      So, if he does not do this, the question for ECW-bubble inhabitants is what is the excuse now? And after 5+ years of excuses the number of people this works for gets pretty small…

      OTOH if we now see commercialisation (not more research on completely different new e-cats) we can all cheer. The chances of that from my POV are as near zero as makes no difference.

  5. Thanks again, Abd for covering this. I’m glad for you that you don’t have to scrounge money for a place to stay for 5 weeks. I hope you can snag a few more tidbits like the one you did with Darden’s son while you’re still there.

    1. Well it was fun to ask for support and even more when it was provided. When I declared I would stay, for me it was a matter of committing funds for the purpose, perhaps better allocated elsewhere for the long-term goals of Infusion Institute, not that I would end up on the street in Miami. I took the risk. The result was an actual improvement in III cash position. That’s fun! IH took a $20 million risk to support LENR. The result was an additional $50 million for that purpose, with the possibility of more. This is not like their investors taking a bath, being sheared. This was all about people supporting possibilities, which is how the world transforms.

      I’m visiting scientists in DC today and tomorrow. I’m having so much fun I can hardly stand it!

  6. Lomax
    You’ve spent the better part of a year covering this.
    In retrospect, does it feel like you could have done something more constructive with that time?

    1. Well, no. I’ve had fun, and have moved a community a little toward awakening, got to experience real support — not only people saying nice things but actually donating money. I got to meet Rossi, and Darden, and Vaughn, all remarkable people. I got to watch Rossi and Darden put down the cudgels. (I don’t care about fault, I care about the future.) I got to discuss overall LENR strategy with some committed to supporting it. I got to develop my writing. One of the most popular things I did was talk about the human aspects, about people and feelings. Technology is one thing, but what’s it all for?

  7. I suppose it shouldn’t be any surprise that this has ended in a settlement.
    Way back in early 2016 when all this started, over on the now defunct EcatNews blog site, it was concluded that a court case was not in the best interests of either side and that the smart thing to do would be to settle before all the dirty laundry was hung out in public. That position was put by me and various others. But no, the juggernaut rolled on, apparently unstoppable.
    For some reason, either one side or both sides failed to see they were both on a ‘hiding to nowhere’ and the whole circus proceeded into town to parade up and down the main street for over a year, with Rossi and his sock puppets slandering IH via his silly blog, and those who look into the claims made on his blog countering such proclamations and inferences with more informed assessments. The inevitable result being, IH was caned by the accusations and inferences from Planet Rossi, and Rossi being caned by the revelations by way of much in-depth research on the counter arguments. As the line goes from Romeo and Juliet, “All are punished”.
    Let me present this more dramatically;-
    https://youtu.be/fFHV7o4SSZ8

    The surprise is, that it got as far as this before the blindingly obvious was finally recognized and the pin was pulled.
    The result is, both sides have suffered the damage which was always inherent with bringing this to court, without any of the benefit which might have been gained by a win in court to justify their position.
    Mr Rossi is now free to reinterpret and massage the outcome to look like a big ‘win’ and move his circus to the next town to carry on with his next big act, the Quackecat X. His loyal followers will be picking up their chairs right now to follow him along the way. Yes he’s lost a few but with this next big act, he will pick up a few more. That’s show business.
    Within a year, all this will be written off as ancient history. It will be written up in the same way as he now writes up his previous escapades, such as the Petroldragon affair and the amazing thermoelectric cell fraud, with no charges ever being proven and him being innocent of any wrongdoing.

    As far as IH is concerned, having suffered the bad press and the expense of having to get this far, I think they should have persevered to the end. They were almost there anyway. They would certainly not have got any financial return from a win but at least it might have restored their reputation to some extent. That is, of course, providing there was nothing diabolically bad about to be revealed about their behavior in the matter. Was there? Now we will never know. We certainly now know about the bad behavior on the Rossi side. But then I would say that we always did. No real customer, no real product, no real excess heat.
    Will that stop him? Of course not. Because now we’ve got the Quackecat X. Don’t worry about all that other stuff. That’s all in the past.

    1. I don’t have any sense that IH is suffering from bad press. Planet Rossi is not the press, nor are a few pseudoskeptics or opinionated bloggers of sny concern to them.

      As to Rossi, anyone considering investing with him now has a vast trove of information on his business practices and how he treats investors. I find that what happened is quite clear from evidence published in the case.

      Added: and, as well, how IH treated an eccentric inventor. If I were an inventor, and IH approached me, would I be happy or horrified? This case provides evidence on that issue. People in that position need evidence, not predigested conclusions that may be biased or distorted in some way.

      1. Dear Abd,

        I am truly grateful for your detailed reporting (thank you!) and sincerely respect your even so detailed opinion on the developments in the Rossi vs Darden case (and other LENR related matters).

        However, i more often than not do not share your views. This reply fits here best because one example of a different opinion relates to this sentence;

        “As to Rossi, anyone considering investing with him now has a vast trove of information on his business practices and how he treats investors.”

        Mr. Dewey Weaver (and others) tried to, as you do here, warn future partners of Rossi. Besides the fact that the man has been metaphorically dragged through several deep pits with questionable content for over a lengthy period and with a frequent interval, it is clear to anyone that the Dottore is already working with a new team / partner.

        Or do you have info that this is not the case?

        Perhaps the above relates to a second area where i do not agree with you. You namely seem to ignore the implications of a “simple settlement”. If there was one in the first place.

        IH went “full throttle” not only to get Rossi of their back, but also to eliminate “Planet Rossi” entirely. Mr. Dewey Weaver did not miss one opportunity to make that clear to the LENR blogosphere.

        Why would the let him walk? IH already invested heavily in the pursuit of their goals and they were almost there. Their case was, as you pointed out in great detail, very strong.

        The only reasons to let Rossi off the hook in my opinion could have been;

        1. Rossi convinced them he could win the case or at least fight longer than IH expected at first (new strong partner that would give Rossi “invincibility”);
        2. Rossi gave them something they could not refuse.

        Some posters seem worried that Rossi might fleece a new, gullible victim elsewhere, but by saying that handily ignore the fact that this very smart man just fought of an opponent of great strength that tried to strike him with all the might it had, but did not succeed.

        To me this proves that “Planet Rossi” (perhaps Rossi should start using the term / reappropriation, because it sounds ever stronger) is a force that has to be taken into account. And it is not just Rossi. He must have a team of people that are executing a plan and it seems they are pretty good at it.

        Anyway, just some thoughts. Thanking you again.

        JB

        1. JB – I would expect that there’s not a lot of assets to get from Rossi, and therefore the risk/reward calculation for legal action against Rossi would say it’s not worth pursuing. Being proved right in court, but losing time and money in so doing, is not good business. The only winners would be the lawyers.

          Dewey was himself in the blogs, not an agent of IH. He did not represent IH, but was probably someone who had lost personal investment and thus not happy with Rossi. He did however give some inside information not available from others.

          It seems unlikely that IH would have instigated any legal action against Rossi for the same reason that they were happy to drop the legal action – very little prospect of profiting. They were forced into that position by Rossi suing them. Looking at the evidence that has been produced, it seems incredible that Rossi thought he could win or that his perjury in the evidence submitted (the heat-exchanger did not exist and that could be shown by preponderance of absent evidence – no-one else saw it or heard it despite that it would have been very noticeable, and there is no invoice for the materials or the construction) would be overlooked.

          It thus seems that IH let Rossi walk because it was cheaper in time and money to do so. If Rossi does perform the miracle of producing a working system, they still have the license for half the world, and we can’t really be sure that Rossi never had anything that worked to some extent – in fact it would be surprising if he hadn’t had some small successes that were unrepeatable. Even with Doral, though we can be certain it didn’t produce 1MW we can’t be certain that it was totally inert (COP=1.0000), though I suspect that was in fact the case. Rossi knew it wouldn’t produce that much heat before he started, since if he had expected the heat he would have prepared for it by actually putting in a heat-exchanger.

          Though it would be nice for all of us if Rossi had found out the secret of LENR and could mass-produce devices, I do not expect that. Given the evidence that has come out during this trial, it seems he’s simply wrong in what he claims, whether he himself believes it or not (and the evidence shows that he doesn’t believe it works, either). That’s a bit sad for his next patrons.

          1. Simon,

            I agree with parts of your post. The IH to “walk because it was cheaper in time and money to do so.” part i have a problem with.

            It just does not make sense. The [offensive term redacted] was an insider and an agent. He received shares in IH and this is a fact. He was aware of the ins and out of the case and up until the last moment he told everybody that wanted to hear that a settlement was out of the question.

            Moreover, in my opinion 75% of the costs were already made. And no investor has the direct power to steer a fund on an operational level. And if there was nothing to claim, Rossi would not be able to make it to the finish line. The more reason to continue.

            Something clearly changed. Hopefully one day we will find out, but i am sure the cost / benefit reason is invalid.

            Indeed, this part is correct “It seems unlikely that IH would have instigated any legal action against Rossi”, but the rest of the sentence isn’t. IH namely had a very favourable, one-sided contract in place. Suing Rossi did not make sense.

            And on the “Heat Exchanger”. We never got the chance to find out if it existed or not. Perhaps a photo of it was the trigger for settlement. Stating something else cannot be substantiated.
            Cheers,

            JB

            [this comment contained a gratuitously offensive term for Dewey Weaver. If I have allowed comment like this I have been remiss. When I have a chance, I may address the substantive issues, but future civility offenses may result in unapproval. –Abd]

          2. IH would look at estimated risk of outcomes times probability of each. While some risks could be large in value, like “Rossi wins on all counts, ” I.e. $300 million or so, the probability I estimated as a snowball’s chance in hell.” My lawyer friend asked, how big a snowball? I estimate at under 10^-6. And even then, appeal would seem likely to succeed, so many basic legal principles were being violated; Altonaga came very close to eliminating Count 1 at the MTD level, wanting to wait for discovery l, and nothing changed, what she was speculating about was deceptive pleading. (About “wholly owned subsidiary.”) there were other risks. We think about lawyer billing. What was Darden and Vaughn’s time worth.? The aggravation? I’ve mention possible issues with future inventor investments. An aggressive counterattack could spook inventors.

            As it is, my opinion is the the case documents show angel investors, not vindictive or punishing failures.

        2. $7.5M in legal fees seems a pretty substantial reason to stop fighting.

          And what changed? Rossi pushed the estimated Trial length (and costs) up X3 with a long list of Witnesses. Rossi listened to Opening statements in Court and perhaps had brought home to him the perils of continuing his deceit when that would be perjury.

          1. THH,

            Where is the USD 7.5 mio coming from? That is pure speculation, right? Let’s say that Darden used a five man team in court. Average hourly fee of USD 500, times 8 hours a day, times 30 days (six weeks). This equals to 300K. It is impossible to get to USD 7.5 mio..

            Cheers,

            JB

          2. THH,

            I stand corrected. Below is not a good calculation. This is;

            Let’s say that Darden used a five man team in court. Average hourly fee of USD 500, times 8 hours a day, times 30 days (six weeks). This equals to 600K. It is impossible to get to USD 7.5 mio..

    2. I never though IH ought to be fighting with Rossi. Public spirited that they do this, but not good business sense. As you say Rossi can continue his unsavoury circus with strong misdirection as to what was the settlement… though if no gag order IH could just tell.

  8. Hi Abd
    I know the trial is done but I
    am curios about the Jury.
    Can you give some info about
    Male,female, age, occupation.
    Don’t forget to pick up blanket
    if you take the bus home.

    Regards
    Sam

    1. Information on that may be in a court record, but probably not. The panel was mixed, men and women, diverse occupations. A professor of biology who knew the laws of thermodynamics (she was excused, though). In 59 jurors out of the original 60 (we don’t know why the one was excused before being brought in), three knew what cold fusion was. (They may or may not all have been excused. Odds are they were.) There were unemployed people and self-employed people. All ages. Ordinary employees may have been largely selected out by the five week trial declared. There was one Muslim woman, easily visible by hijab. (Obviously, for this case, religion was not asked, so her religion was not mentioned.) It was a broad group. If they paid attention, and it seemed they would, they could do a good job. But it did not come to that.

      Thanks about the blanket. I might or might not be able to manage it. My two bus rides home will be shorter, the first one only a little more than 24 hours, and I think I can dress a little more warmly.

  9. What does this mean? added to post. There are many speculations obviously being created out of thin air and wishful thinking about supposed terms of the settlement. If there were terms, beyond the obvious, we won’t know them and the situation has returned to status quo ante, which included confidentiality.

    However, the world has changed. We now know a great deal about what was confidential before. Much of it turned out to not match opinion. Remember that!

  10. One thought I have had for some time. Back Dec. 2016, I posted on LF (and I believe here) that I thought Rossi would drop the case and then post “I am dropping the case. It is preventing me from doing R&D and making production”
    That the case would be dropped, and as with everything Rossi, a full NDA in place.

    However this did not happen early in and I thought I was wrong. After more pondering, I think a very possible scenario is that Rossi indeed got exactly what he wanted in this affair…..

    Consider this. Rossi originally wanted the 89 million. However he found out he could not fake a test at IH facilities. So he devised the incredulous Doral event.

    He eventually saw that this ploy too was uncovered and with so much evidence as to ruin him. So his next step…? Sue IH. What? This is incredible!

    Why? Not to collect the 89 million, but to force the full NDA. I am giving him a lot of credit here, but I think this is his true master piece. He not only got to keep his 10.5 million, but he got his full NDA. In his mind (and in his loyal followers) he is untarnished, “even won” and is free to continue his charade into the future. Yes, he might even continue to get financing!

    What happened? He kept his money, minus 1-2 million for lawyers. He may have got his full NDA. Business as usual for Mr. ROSSI. 😣

    1. Nice try. One problem. More has been revealed about Rossi because of this lawsuit than we have ever known before. Yes, some kind of NDA may be an attractive benefit for Rossi, but it’s not like IH was running about “exposing” Rossi. And I and many others are free to say what we choose.

      1. Yes, I agree, unfortunately several have been warning people about Rossi for a long time and IH still invested. Apparently some at Upsalla are still supporting him and I am unsure about Hydrofusion, but they may still be in the mix!

        I am personally very disappointed that Rossi was not fully exposed by the court case, but I also realize it was not my money paying the bill.

        I am not to convinced that Rossi is now unable to find financing. I think “finding marks” is his true talent as MY would say. It will be a shame if he continues.

        His mind is certainly strange. He has millions and yet still pursues the charade! Does he really think he is in the running for a Nobel?

        Who knows? One thing that has been proven over many years now… “Rossi can take a licking but he keeps on ticking” Even jail time and convictions have not prevented his continued fraud.
        😔

        1. It was an easy call to warn about Rossi. We think of IH as having “invested,” but a better summary is that they bought the technology, because that was the only way they could test it. In 2012, the matter was murky. While Planet Rossi claims he was completely exonerated, that doesn’t match the facts. He was accused, convicted, and charged with other offenses. He was imprisoned on the earlier charges. Then he was convicted of the later charges. The earlier conviction(s) were reversed, and the time served on them was applied to his later convictions. To my knowledge, the later convictions were never reversed. Some of the original charges were dropped for technical reasons. This was not “exoneration.” Planet Rossi labels things, thinking that reality shifts by how we label it. It does. In our minds.

          I have alternate opinions about the earlier mess: (1) he ran afoul of powerful enemies. (2) his technology was at least partially real, but his execution was flawed and incautious. (3) He played fast and loose with regulations. (4) He rejected corporate support when it was offered, believing that big corporations were out to steal his technology. So when the S hit the F, he didn’t have the power to defeat the “enemies,” or protect himself from authorities.

          Regardless, that history would raise red flags for any sane investor: proceed with caution. Rossi’s demonstrations convinced Kullander and Essen. There was a Levi test that looked good, according to Rothwell. Krivit’s videos sure made Rossi look like a faker. What was the truth? IH was planning on entering LENR with major investments. They started out with a $1.5 million purchase of the PLant, but the plant was not to be delivered until the Validation Test. Rossi did not allow independent experts to be present, that’s in the evidentiary record. Even though the Validation Test stank (for reasons brought out in the case record), they had decided to go ahead, they were willing to risk another $10 million that would not only, then, allow them to get their hands on Rossi reactors, but to test them independently. And if those reactors did not work, for whatever reason, they would still be safe against a Rossi Surprise showing up at Home Depot, so to speak. They were buying technology that might or might not exist, and a hedge to protect all LENR investment. They were not thinking narrowly.

          They did not expect that Rossi would be so crazy as to sue them, if they played this straight. It appears that they did. They gave Rossi every opportunity. While we cannot be certain that Rossi has nothing, if he had a real technology, he refused to reveal it to IH and he refused to allow fully-monitored testing. It was all Rossi Grease.

          I have no idea what the Swedes are up to. If Hydrofusion is still interested, well, “fools and their money….” Rossi may be able to find financing. So what? Anyone who investigates this field, and who studies the case record, will know that investing in Rossi is very dangerous.

          Make an agreement with him, he will creatively interpret it to mean that you owe him more money, and if you don’t pay it, that you never intended to pay it, so it was fraud, and he will go after not just the company you formed for the investment, but you and all your personal assets and related companies, claiming that you promised such and such. He will ignore the actual terms of the agreement and will lie about it in pleadings — or disregard obviously contrary terms. That’s legal, by the way. Pleadings are not testimony.

          And then it can cost you millions of dollars in legal fees. And all for what? What the case showed is that well-funded investors, hiring talent and contracting with talent (such as Boeing) failed to confirm the technology. If they were erring, Rossi could have helped them, and a sane inventor would have, because if they could not independently make working devices, they could not raise the $89 million. If Rossi believed what his lawyers claimed, he simply was demonstrating that he has no idea how business operates. They would hot be sitting there, with $89 million in a bank account, waiting to pay him. They would raise that kind of money if they decided it was needed. And if they did not believe it had been earned, hang the Agreement! it would have been a foolish agreement, and IH would go bankrupt, Rossi could have, with court action, have cancelled the license, and would be ahead from the deal, and IH would have lost their roughly $20 million investment, which was the real risk (not $100.5 million).

          Sane investors will avoid such an investment like the plague. It has gone way beyond ordinary risk. IH did not realize, my guess, just how crazy he was. Annesser enabled the insanity. Obviously, we don’t know what Annesser told Rossi, but, outwardly, he was the kind of lawyer people love hate. The Complaint was riddled with errors, hastily tossed together, and this was all obvious even before IH answered. Yet … it had enough apparent meat (essentially false claims) that it survived a Motion to Dismiss. IH was obviously not eager to sue Rossi, and only countercomplained as an addendum to their Answer, once Answer was required.

          Planet Rossi is claiming that IH must have given Rossi something to get him to give up the Complaint. They are claiming that IH refused to settle earlier. There is no evidence other than Rossi Says that there was ever a settlement offer. From what I saw — which is necessarily incomplete — the appearance was quite simple: Lukacs, to Pace, suggested that his client might be willing to drop his case if IH was willing to drop theirs. That matches what would have happened if the Motion to Dismiss had succeeded (if it had been granted with prejudice).

          So IH got what they wanted. Darden may not have been totally thrilled, and had asked for some recovery. I doubt that he would have sued however, if Rossi had not sued him. The counterclaim made it clear that Rossi had something to lose, and it has been pointed out that on a few matters, there was the possibility of a criminal conviction for perjury. Rossi could have gone to jail again. That risk never existed for Darden (even though Rossi claimed perjury, he wasn’t specific and it is very likely there was very inadequate evidence if any at all, other than Rossi fantasies, and simple contradiction is not enough for a perjury conviction. (The two big items on the Rossi side would be the “Johnson Matthey” denial in Rossi’s affidavit. Rossi often phrases things to create an appearance, creatively playing with words to create later plausible deniability. That can be inadequate as a defense. If the communication would be reasonably understood as deceptive, if Rossi was not telling “the whole truth,” but cherry-picking when he knows the effect of his words will be deceptive, that can be perjury. The extensive Rossi pleadings are full of examples of this, but pleadings, even if false or deceptive, are not perjury.)

          And then there is the heat exchanger, a story that positively reeks. I think Lukacs looked at this and decided it was indefensible. In a perjury prosecution, new evidence could be obtained, from third parties. There would have been complete access to all Rossi, Leonardo, and JMP financial records. Testimony could have been obtained from anyone who had been there, about noise levels, the front window, etc. While the burden of proof would be on the State, I think they could have won. This becomes far more likely if IH were to prevail in the civil suit. State prosecutors hate to file cases and lose. However, a civil case finding, determining fraudulent representation, and under some conditions, could give them enough cover to file. Jury decisions legally establish fact. Then Rossi would be fighting the State.

          Rossi lies. That is patently transparent from the record, shown beyond a reasonable doubt by Rossi’s own emails. His lies fit a pattern: he wants something to be true, and maybe he thinks he can make it true. So he says it as if it is already true. We will, I suspect, cover the whole “JM -> JMC -> JMP” evolution. it was a Rossi fantasy, presented as if already real. Rossi was the actual director of JMP, but he may have partitioned this in his mind, so he spoke of the Director as if someone else. “Legal fiction.” His habits get him into trouble, but there is another side. His linguistic habits give him high motivation, this is connected with his famous persistence. It has worked for him. Here, however, it cost him millions of dollars in legal fees. I highly doubt that IH agreed to pay those, or anything more. They agreed, I strongly suspect from what I saw in court, to drop their case if he dropped his, returning the matter to status quo ante except for one thing: Both parties would be estopped from reasserting the claims legally. To reassert them in public statements could be a violation of the settlement agreement — that is the one additional condition probably set up –, but unless damages could be shown, probably relatively harmless. It’s probably gonna leak, eventually, and some facts may become obvious. If IH paid anything significant, this would show in IHHI financial statements, eventually. If Rossi sells a license in conflict with the Agreement, IH may choose to ignore it unless real money starts to show up. They might take steps to protect their rights, but we won’t necessarily see anything, but, again, leaks. There are many other possibilities. Rossi will continue to claim this and that. People will believe him or not. The Earth rotates and revolves around the Sun. People are born and people die. And this person gets ready to take a bus north today.

          An excellent example is the accidental control (unfueled) reactor. That accidentally did what should have been done at Lugano: parallel tests of multiple reactors, some unfueled, with the researchers not knowing which were which. Basic science, which Rossi always avoided and even explicitly stated was unnecessary, because “he knew what would happen” But he did not know, he imagined. That is the difference between belief and science. Rossi, however, “takes a licking and keeps on ticking.” When faced with this, he invented a preposterous explanation, “The Russians stole the fuel!”, which ignored that it did not matter why the reactor was unfueled. A careful inventor would have been curious as hell, would have wanted to recreate that testing, carefully. Instead he stormed out, angry. Of course he was angry. Years of work were being impeached. His measurement methods were flawed. (This was probably IR thermometry, with the incorrect band emissivity value for alumina at high temperatures. The same method as Lugano used, which, without calibration across the full range of input powers, was immediately spotted as defective by McKubre — and many others writing on the CMNS list privately, including me.

          Defective measurement methods don’t prove anything. However, recalculation indicated much lower COP, possibly 1.0, or no excess heat. Control experiments are used to detect “unknown errors.”

          I and others will work to organize the evidence. I continue to invite correction. The Rossi v. Darden resources here are to facilitate study. Blog posts are often opinion and designed to be dramatic, to create interesting material. However, study pages here, which can and will be organized into a coherent hierarchy, are serious and fact and opinion are generally segregated. I know the difference, and if I’m reminded of errors, intend to correct them.

          Yeah, the Nobel dreams are very strange, especially introduced as argument in the trial. There is no Nobel prize for inventions. If Rossi developed and showed conclusive evidence for a LENR theory, okay, maybe. But he hasn’t done that. The fuel samples fell far short of it and fully-independent confirmation would be necessary, not just a few tests and a few opinions, even the opinions of members of the Prize Committee, Consider what we know about heat/helium in PdD LENR. There is nothing like that with NiH and the Rossi demonstrations. and the only known Committee member involved with Rossi was Kullander, who died. This is like many Rossi claims. His idea, presented as fact.

          Planet Rossi laps it up. And will continue to do so, inventing explanations to allow themselves to ignore vast regions of fact. They may continued this forever, and it would have continued if there had been a definitive jury verdict against Rossi. It would be seen by some active on that planet as proof of the vast conspiracy against Rossi, and we would have been seeing reams of arguments as to why this is proven.

          People still argue for a flat earth, and for a conspiracy to deny it. Some of the arguments seem plausible enough to convince — or at least intrigue — the unwary, often arguments of the “how come” variety. And science education is often atrocious. People memorized “facts” that are really complex conclusions, but not the underlying evidence, which is sometimes presented incorrectly, creating fodder for someone to come along with some “amazing claim,” pointing to the common errors.

          1. “There was a Levi test that looked good, according to Rothwell.”

            I meant the published test. You can judge for yourself:

            http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LeviGindication.pdf

            It seems pretty good to me. Unfortunately, it was followed by Lugano, which was pretty bad. I don’t know what to make of that! Usually, when a group of scientists do a second round of experiments, they improve on the methods and produce a better result.

            I also heard that some of the unpublished tests performed when Rossi was not present were positive. I have very little information on them.

          2. You wrote: “Here, however, it cost him millions of dollars in legal fees. I highly doubt that IH agreed to pay those, or anything more. They agreed, I strongly suspect from what I saw in court, to drop their case if he dropped his, returning the matter to status quo ante except for one thing: Both parties would be estopped from reasserting the claims legally.”

            The judge posted a ruling which says neither side will pay for the other’s legal fees. And it says the case was dismissed with prejudice, meaning they cannot go back to court. See document 333 Order of Dismissal (the last document on file):

            https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BzKtdce19-wyb1RxOTF6c2NtZkk

  11. It may be somewhat beneficial for Signor Rossi to have a full NDA on the settlement agreement, but the depositions remain available, and there is more than enough evidence in there incontrovertibly to show up his deceptions and squirmings when the questions get too close.

    Anyone now considering investing with this man, please check with me. I have a bridge to sell, – good price, really good price – and I know where the Fountain of Youth is, and an expedition needs funding.

  12. was interesting to read

    just a question not about legal rights and contracts and who was right or not , but what is your opinion, about the ecat , was it according to you, actually working with the claimed COP? Or not even close?

    1. My opinion may or may not be important. My focus is on fact, opinion then is generated. Some of us filter fact according to opinion, and that is a necessary procedure, but dangerous, because opinion can then become self-validating. Just pick the facts that support the opinion and ignore the rest. My goal is to move beyond that where possible.

      However, such as it is, you have asked for my opinion, which is necessarily and in part, guesswork. Either Rossi is a deliberate con, which I don’t consider impossible, or, more likely, he fooled himself. He may or may not have had some real results, but, regardless, his habits led him to persist until his test results showed heat. He is not a scientist and doesn’t understand or follow the scientific method, and has explicitly rejected it. He has fooled himself — and others, including some unwilling to recognize and acknowledge their own errors. There was no shame for a scientist in reporting that a demonstration looked real. However, those reports had consequences, and if errors were shown in the methods used, it would be a responsibility for someone making a report like that to respond, and to issue corrections if appropriate. I’ll be writing more about this. Everyone makes mistakes, what separates the weak from the strong is that the latter acknowledge them, or at least the possibility of error.

  13. Abd – thanks for the reports, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your trip.

    Personally, I suspect that Rossi and his lawyers have been reading your analysis (or other sites), and noticed that there was a large risk of Rossi being shown to have perjured himself. That would have been pretty easy to prove, too. I don’t know if that still applies in US law even though the case has been settled, though I doubt that IH would waste their money getting revenge. It may rankle to allow Rossi to continue his career, but on the outside chance that he does in fact produce some real technology they still (I expect) have the license to use it in half the world, whereas in jail he certainly wouldn’t do any research. It’s thus a logical and hard-headed decision to drop the suit in return for Rossi dropping his. Rossi does seem to have found other sponsors, after all. It’s not IH’s task to stop the parting of fools and money.

    We’ll likely be talking about Rossi for years yet, with the last “verified working” systems consigned to the memory slot and the latest one being about to be mass-manufactured by robots. Rinse and repeat….

    1. Yes. Meanwhile, at a substantial cost, IH provided the world with far more clear evidence than we had ever seen about Rossi and the affair. This could save new investors millions of dollars. If they choose to do something different that what might be indicated, that would be their prerogative. Their money, presumably. As well, IH boldness inspired the Woodford investment, which was, contrary to idiotic misrepresentations by some, was not about Rossi technology, and IH owning the license was a hedge. Woodford’s money was to be invested in other possibilities. So far, no cigar, but some possibilities remain, and IH is now far more sophisticated, ready to investigate new possibilities as they appear. I said to Darden it might take a very long time. Darden said they were not going to give up. I suggested watching the burn rate, they were spending a lot very quickly when this was could take many years. I think they will be careful. Meanwhile, back to the science. And I get to go home.

      The way it worked out, I end up with a few hundred dollars to support continued activity, and probably an enhanced reputation. I end up with having had face time with the parties, which may help with future endeavors to facilitate research. Not bad. Thanks, Simon. This blog has more important issues to address, long-term. Science and the energy future of humanity. Science first. Too much emphasis on “importance” can blind.

      1. Abd – it appears that your plans are maturing nicely, and that more people are referring to your blog as a trusted source. That includes people who disagree with your conclusions. You have earned the money fairly, for value received.

        The energy future of humanity is important, and you have also helped me a lot by your questioning. I’ve thus seen where my explanations are lacking, and how to improve them. You have a large effect on the future.

  14. And here we are just a few days later, and the massage of the results begin.

    “Andrea Rossi
    July 7, 2017 at 4:13 PM
    Gennady:
    Thank you for your sustain.
    Obviously I am satisfied: should I not have been satisfied, I would not accept the settlement.”

    To the faithful followers, this comment carries the inference that Mr Rossi came away with a cash settlement, otherwise, why would he be “satisfied”?
    The logic of the adoring fans will be that he must have got a payment. If he came away with nothing more than he would have had if he didn’t initiate the litigation in the first place, that would hardly be a satisfying result, would it? He could have got that satisfaction on the first day by withdrawing the litigation, but he didn’t. He carried it on for a whole year and now has a result with which he is satisfied. That must mean he got some money out if it, and enough of it that he is now satisfied.

    You can be sure if someone follows this up with a specific question on his blog about how much he received, he will give the seemingly innocuous reply that he cannot comment on the settlement. But then the next logical response to that from the adoring fans will be,.. “ooOOooo he didn’t say he got nothing. That must mean he got something then. I bet it was millions.”
    And away we go on another runaway train on the wrong track. (sigh)

    Incidentally, I notice on the Rossiblog, all attention is now on the amazing new QuackecatX. Nothing at all about the imminent massive production of the incredibly successful 1 Megawatt plants, which now has a proven COP performance of between 60 and 140, or whatever the incredibly, might I even use the word ‘unbelievable’, figures were.
    Wouldn’t you think that with a device as good as this, and now that the litigation is dispensed with, all attention would now be on the long promised ‘massive industrialization’ of the product which we were all expecting?
    After all, Rossi still has the distribution rights on this for half the planet. Is that not enough for him?
    But no. Now we have the QuackecatX! With a whole 20 watts output of heat no less. Well, no less until the next variant is announced that is.
    Even Mr Rossi has withdrawn all the fancy claims of direct electrical output etc which may have (if true, but apparently it isn’t) some benefit over his previous amazing new inventions. Now there are no claims other than it produces 20 watts of heat, allegedly.
    You can do that with a tea candle, and with no other control circuitry other than a match.
    Oh well, the next shiny new thing I suppose. Everybody wants one.
    When can I see one? What time does the show start?

    1. I would not make fun of 20 watts. With a small device with low power input, this could be quite significant, depending on details. In fact Rossi’s insistence on a 1 MW plant was always suspicious. As an engineer, of sorts, I would, for testing purposes, vastly prefer testing many small devices instead of one large assembly of many devices. Rossi talks about sigma six. No reliability test data exists. The GPT requirements didn’t care about reliability. How often was it allowed to replace failing units? Every day? If so, the technology was commercially useless. I doubt that this was invisible to IH. They were willing to risk maybe $20 million for an opportunity to test the technology themselves. Even if the technology didn’t work, clawing back that money would have been difficult. Estoppel. But they would still have a license, in case future devices did prove out.
      At this point, what was a normally skeptical reaction to the Rossi situation back in 2011, has become more solid.
      IH would not have sued Rossi, would not have been beating that hammered drum of fake fake fake fake fake if not for Rossi’s unexpected and aggressive Complaint. I know the evidence in the case on all sides, though certainly not all possible admissible evidence, because it is not all public.
      As I’ve mentioned, there were two new alleged facts revealed in Chaiken’s Opening, about Cherokee involvement. They were legally irrelevant, supporting a legally bankrupt argument for Cherokee liability. The entire Rossi case was innuendo and assumption that clear and explicit and undeniably lacking requirements of the Agreement could be ignored, on an argument that poor Mr Rossi was tricked. (Playing for that sympathy from the jury was pointed out to me by a lawyer as the Rossi strategy with some prayer of success. However this would not look so good to an appeals court!
      My comment about Darden’s appearance has been mangled and taken out of context to make it seem that Darden was afraid of the coming evidence phase. If there was anything to fear, it wasn’t revealed by the opening. The basic arguments were not new, and the new arguments did not change the fact that Cherokee did not directly invest, beyond what appears to have been a short-term loan of $750,000 to Darden. Rossi alleges verbal misrepresentation that

      1. Happened over four years before. Was witnessed only by Rossi, the substance was denied under oath, by Darden and Vaughn, and even if they said that, any lawyer would have told Rossi that it was fluff, unenforceable, that a corporation could not be bound by verbal representations, for actions to take place more than a year in the future, even if the representations were made by an officer with authority to bind the corporation, unless the officer actually signs to bind. (This was behind the meshegas about Vaughn not being a manager. He wasn’t a manager under the legal definition for Cherokee. Darden was.)

      2. Did not actually harm Rossi. It is clear that the reason for nonpayment if the Rossi demand for $89 million was not caused by inability to pay. IH never had that much cash or liquid assets. But an LLC like IH does not hold such assets “just in case.” They will, if intending to pay an obligation they can accept, look for investor or loan commitments. Rossi claims that he would not have accepted the Agreement if he had known. But if he didn’t know, and relied on his understanding of verbal representations, he was a fool. Easily, what Darden and Vaugh actually told Rossi could have been completely true, and something like what Rossi claimed. And example would be that Darden and/or Vaughn may have used “we” instead of “Cherokee” in making those promises. Details like this matter, and Rossi’s fraud claim was very weak on this.

      For a jury to believe that IH was “unfairly enriched” by the Agreement is missing any evidence of enrichment, only vague allegations about them “using plaintiff’s status as a consultant to them to impress Woodford. That would not have been unfair, it would have been part of what they paid for.

      My intention is to organize all the evidence we had and generate what I call a consensus document. We may disagree in interpretations of fact, but agreement should be possible for good-faith participants.

      We can do something like what the jury would have done..

      My point here is that the idea that Darden was eager to get the case dismissed because he feared major losses is, from my understanding of the ducuments and what I saw in court, preposterous. I’d expect that there would be a bit of an internal struggle if faced with what it looks, to me, happened. Just let go. “But… but … he lied!” Yes he did, and Darden must have known this far earlier, they merely did not know the extent of it.

      Rossi, by the settlement, unless there are hidden terms that I do not expect were present, did not “win” in court. That is, he made certain claims, which were dismissed. That wouldn’t be called a win. Rather, those claims caused a counter-claim to be filed, and the process was creating high legal risk for Rossi. I don’t think IH had a very strong case to allow IH to recover on the original investment (which also might not seem fair, but … estoppel. IH knowingly took that risk, and it is crucial for their business plan that they not be setting up inventors to be sued if something goes awry (such as the inventor using defective measurement methods).

      By dropping the counterclaims they were protecting their future operations. This would be complicated to assess. The attorney I spoke with said that there may have been a previous settlement offer, probably early on, something less than their cost to defend. I would, in fact, have considered such an offer normal business practice, if they were not already planning to sue Rossi, and there is no evidence of such intention. Under this theory, Rossi had refused, but far more was now visible. Yes, based on such an offer, Lucas may have had a basis that included some concessions or payments to Rossi.
      IH repeatedly affirmed that even though the time for the GPT had passed, even though the Second Anendment was “cancelled,” they were willing to pay him if he would show them how to make devices that worked.

      (Rossi’s business practices and understandings are weird. The 2nd Amendment was not cancelled, it was merely incomplete. All Rossi had to do was convince his friends at Ampenergo to sign it. There was no deadline for signature. There was no date information on the signatures, only the overlap October day. Ampenergo could still sign, my opinion, and this would be consistent with dropping the claims. It would not allow another fake test to be set up, because the 2nd Amendment then required all the parties to sign a written agreement to the start date of the test, and that could cover all IH or Ampenergo concerns. Rossi did not take that legally allowed route. Instead he attempted to force what was intended to be voluntary. He ignored a fundamental business principle: if a customer has promised to pay you, but they need something from you to raise the money, give it to them if you can! To raise $89 million to pay Rossi, and if Rossi had a real technology, IH needed to be able to make devices that would reliably work. Otherwise, they would have had to defraud investors or lenders. One of the more remarkable claims on the Rossi side is that the Agreement did not require IH to be able to replicate. It is technically correct… and the jury would hate it. The whole purpose of the Agreement was not just a license, but technology transfer. So Rossi’s alternate defense was a claim that they were lying, that they had replicated.

      In a sane world, if they had replicated, they’d have tapped Woodford on the shoulder. “Come and look at this. Have your engineers come and look at this. Take this set of devices. They are coded, some are fueled, some are not (I.e. have a very similar dummy fuel, and they are sealed. Or there is no code, the reactors are simply mixed, with determination of fuel/no fuel after the tests are run by opening the reactors. I think I prefer the coding.) We have done these tests, and will assist your consultant with whatever they need. We are ready to pay Rossi $89 million for a technology that we assess is worth far more than that, it is worth billions of dollars per year. So we need $89 million of what you committed in 2014. We don’t need more funding other than that from you at this time, because we can now sell sublicenses to companies that will actually take these designs to market.”

      I am forced into a position that either Rossi has no working technology (whether or not fraud is involved, there is a possibility of delusion here, or some mixture) or he was not willing to reveal his secrets, and is a terrible businessman, afflicted with paranoia.

      In mercato veritas. The market has, in fact spoken. It can change its mind. “Show me the beef!”

      (Which market? The deceived investor market or the end-user market. The saying obviously is referring to end-users, many of them, not just some isolated and deluded “customers.” It’s still a problematic idea, because there are medications, widely sold, that turn out, when more careful study is available, to be useless or harmful. So I’m not sure about truth, but where performance is obvious — like a water heater — in mercato veritas should be quite reliable.

  15. Abd, Re the first line of the above comment;-
    “I would not make fun of 20 watts. With a small device with low power input, this could be quite significant, depending on details. ”

    If I thought there was even the slightest chance that Mr Rossi has finally, after all this time, come up with a working version of what he has claimed he has had working for seven years now, I would treat his most recent claims for the 20 watt ecat version with considerable interest and respect. However, in the light of all that has come before, I now treat all announcements from Rossi regarding his amazing new technologies with the total unbelief which his previous history has so richly earned. We should all now be very familiar with his abysmally bad methods and techniques for measuring excess heat, and his obviously flawed reasons for insisting on those methods. “Quenching the reaction” etc. All just bogus excuses so he could maintain the test procedure in an area in which he had perfected the required deception to establish the appearance of a working technology.
    I see the chances of this latest amazing new Quackecat X being anything more than another clever party trick, being so close to zero that any distinction is not possible. To assign any probability value above zero to its authenticity is simply following him down the same rabbit hole which IH were lured down three years ago.
    In the light of all that has gone before, with more than 30 years of Rossi inoperable inventions, there is now zero probability that he has finally come up with something which works at over-unity energy generation.

    1. I’ve always seen the QuarkX as a cobbled together panic in order to justify dropping development on the 1MW plant(for obvious reasons). Any details that have come out are sketchy at best. 20W output from such a small device would run into heat dissipation problem and what about the control system to regulate the individual devices? So you end up with a whole lot of individually controlled devices in a larger box with water being pumped thorough it to extract the excess heat and prevent all the cells melting, sounds like a worse idea to me. Much easier to demonstrate and less costly of course *wink*

    2. I certainly get that you don’t trust Rossi claims, and reason for that would be obvious. I don’t blame anyone for not following such claims. I don’t blame anyone for not following or investigating cold fusion in general, unless it is their job responsibility. Rather, I attempt to understand the position, and to create channels for communication that can then take us beyond the limitations of the past.

      However, this reluctance should, I’d think, have nothing to do with “20 watts,” if the devices are small and cheap and actually work. Other details would be important, such as operating life without refueling or refurbishing.

      1. Hi Abd,

        Just read this comment at ECW;

        “I just spent two days talking with scientists with extensive personal experience with Rossi. I shared with them what happened in Miami, and they shared what they could of their experience with Rossi. Fascinating.”

        Are you planning to elaborate on this on your blog?

        Cheers,

        JB

  16. I think you have to examine the logic of the whole situation. AR abandons work on a 1MW plant that he claims is tried and tested in favour of a new device, which is much smaller, but which he claims is much superior. There doesn’t seem to be any correlation between the two devices, one produces only heat, the other is claimed to output heat, light and electricity in various proportions. Are we expected to believe that the same fuel is used in both devices?, it seems like a very low probability. Why not release the details of the inferiors device since AR has no intention of carrying it forward himself and sit back and wait for the royalties to roll in with no effort. To me, the reason this wont happens seem pretty obvious.

    1. I think that would be for the same reason the original ecat, which he had heating his factory for two years and was “ready for market”, is still nowhere to be seen.
      I well recall Rossi making the comment regarding hte original home market ecat for which he had pre-orders for 500,000, “We are not making idle chatters. We are making products.” And yet here we are six years later with not a product in sight. He claims it is waiting for ‘certification’, and yet the official ecat web site can’t even show a photo of any real device submitted for certification. It can only show an artist’s impression.
      No authority will certify a device as safe and suitable for sale on an artist impression. You have to submit the final product in the manner in which it is offered for sale. The fact that after all this time there is not even a photograph of a real device strongly indicates that a real device does not exist.
      Any questions on the progress of the certification are usually answered with the reply that “We are working very hard on it” and that progress is going according to plan.
      We would have to be left wondering what the plan is that progress could be said to be according to plan. The plan would have to be, never to put a product onto the market. In that regard, the plan is working quite well. Six years later and still no product at all has been sold onto the market.
      Oh, except of course, the 1-megawatt plant which was sold to some secret military customer back in 2011, Rossi says. It ran for a whole year at least, because Rossi gave us updates on its operation and maintenance.
      And then eleven more which followed to the same customer, Rossi says.
      And the three more which he sold to the same customer which was so happy with the performance of the latest one year test, Rossi says. Although, that order has been placed on ‘hold’ Rossi says, on account of the customer wants to upgrade the order to the new Quackecat variant, which isn’t even finished in R&D yet.
      And why wouldn’t they wait? The tested 1MW version only has a COP of greater than 60, whereas the newQuackecatX has a proven COP of,. ?? Well, who knows?

      The obvious conclusion has to be that none of the products so far ‘invented’ will ever be available to the market, otherwise the market will see what a load of horse feathers they all are, exactly as IH have found.
      Will that change with the new amazing Quackecat x?
      Let the market decide, but my firm impression is No! And so far, the very limited market agrees with me.

      I also think his ‘marvelous Swedish team’ have come to a similar conclusion.
      Back in early 2016, Rossi was off to Sweden to demonstrate his Quackecat to them, which at the time was claimed to generate heat and electricity in variable and adjustable proportions, depending on preference, plus light of many colors.
      I noticed that as soon as he had returned, the claim of direct electrical production ceased, as did also, his regular references to his ‘marvelous Swedish team’.
      I have a feeling that this indicates that his marvelous Swedish team were sufficiently marvelous to see through whatever the trick was which gave the appearance of direct electrical production. And having seen through that cheap trick they decided not to follow IH into a European version of what IH bought into. Consequently, Rossi’s ‘battleship’ has been tied up in port ever since while Capitan Rossi and his intrepid crew flounder around in the ships row boat, looking for some new gullible fools who will be willing to throw another few million into his latest shiny new thing. He will be hard pressed to find the treasure which he fleeced fromIH’s pocket.

      The delay of the demonstration of the amazing Quackecat x is supposedly for the purpose of achieving the mythical sigma 5, but in reality, it is simply a delaying tactic, waiting for some cashed up investors to look over the fence and take an interest in it. At that time, and when Rossi thinks they are teetering on the brink of investment, he will do a brilliant performance of demonstrating the quackecat, in the hope that it will drag them over the line and throw their cash into the ring.
      For all those who think this is a very unlikely scenario, look back at the history of how IH got sucked into it all.
      Oh well, all good entertainment, and that’s the only value it has had now since the end of 2011.

      1. Hi Abd,

        I guess your post;

        “Yes. Some of what was discussed was confidential. I will want to clear what I write with them.”

        ..is a reply to my question if you will write about your conversation with the guys that worked with Rossi. If you say “with them”, do you mean you will post something in the name of these “guys” as well? I do not fully understand you, but it might be my poor English.

        Thanks,

        JB

        1. I have a document to publish from Nagel. I had hours of conversation with him and Kidwell. Some things were said to me with explicit request for “off the record.” I’m not exactly sure about each time. I was not recording the conversations. So I want to be sure that I don’t reveal what the scientist did not wish to become public. Sorry if this is vague. I will say more after I’m home (tonight or tomorrow, I’m on the bus now.)

        2. “clear with them” means send or show them a draft, and they may correct it, but I’m responsible for what I write. If they send me some statement, I would consider publishing it, attributing it to them.

  17. It appears that this settlement happened over a matter of hours or minutes, so my guess is that it couldn’t be very complicated. AR offered to withdraw all his complaints and return to the status quo of the LA. IH/Darden’s lawyers were keen to press on with the trial to recoup their losses. AR then showed the current Leonardo Corp balance sheet which contained almost no money, Darden then saw the futility of recovering any money and instructed his lawyers to settle, case over.

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