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(Please contact me by email)
("Wow, good thing you do sudoku, it keeps the brain sharp")
 
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It is urgent that the person who left a message on this page yesterday contact me privately. This can be done by enabling email here and sending me a mail, also notify me on this talk page that you have sent the mail. You may also have someone you trust contact me. That we communicate more directly is important for your protection. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 11:09, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
 
It is urgent that the person who left a message on this page yesterday contact me privately. This can be done by enabling email here and sending me a mail, also notify me on this talk page that you have sent the mail. You may also have someone you trust contact me. That we communicate more directly is important for your protection. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 11:09, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
  
Sorry, I will not contact you by email because you will trace it. You have an old public IP I used. It traces to Florida not Reading UK.  
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Sorry, I will not contact you by email because you will trace it. You have an old public IP I used. It traces to Florida not Reading UK. You will never find out who I am. The Wikimedia Foundation will never tell you.
  
 
I have emailed my identity to the Wikimedia Foundation, they know who I am, I recently emailed Michael Umbrecht my identity. I have a long-standing Wikipedia account - I did not want to disclose publicly. Your material on cold fusion deserved to be deleted. I have not done anything wrong in voting to delete your pseudoscience. Please remove my IP from your lawsuit. [[User:Max|Max]] ([[User talk:Max|talk]]) 16:01, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
 
I have emailed my identity to the Wikimedia Foundation, they know who I am, I recently emailed Michael Umbrecht my identity. I have a long-standing Wikipedia account - I did not want to disclose publicly. Your material on cold fusion deserved to be deleted. I have not done anything wrong in voting to delete your pseudoscience. Please remove my IP from your lawsuit. [[User:Max|Max]] ([[User talk:Max|talk]]) 16:01, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
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:I very much appreciate that you told the truth, if you did. But there have been so many lies and impersonations that I cannot be sure. I believe you because the story you told made many otherwise mysterious pieces fit together. But to know for sure, your real identity is needed.
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:First of all, I cannot trace you through an anonymous email unless you don't take precautions, and I think you know how to take them. (And even then, without a court order, converting IP to name is not easy.)
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:If the case survives dismissal, it proceeds to discovery, where the WMF will be compelled to disclose information it has. They will attempt to protect privacy, I'm sure, but that protection will be limited. There is no privilege for private defamation, my opinion, and only privileged communications are most intensely protected, and those are still not fully protected.
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:Many things I would say to you privately that I cannot in public. And this is public. I want to communicate privately to protect you, not to harm you. I suggest enabling email for Max, using an anonymous email account that I cannot trace. We can then establish that the account is the same as Max here, and there are other steps that can be taken to establish your probity, short of revealing identity.
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:There no real safety except in the truth. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 20:48, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
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== Deep trolling ==
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The Smith brothers, getting desperate, are pulling out all the stops. This message was left here today:
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-----------------------
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Dennis,
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I emailed you the divorce papers [[User:Nasima Bernhardt|Nasima Bernhardt]] ([[User talk:Nasima Bernhardt|talk]]) 11:26, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
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----------------------------
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Nasima was my first wife, we were married for ten years and had five wonderful children, and seven wonderful grandchildren so far. We were divorced almost forty years ago, and are good friends. She remarried years later and Bernhardt is her present married name. I spent some time with her and a pile of kids and grandkids last Thanksgiving. Life is good, even if it sometimes takes unexpected turns.
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Besides this being nonsense, and she would not call me "Dennis," and she would certainly not use a Tor node for access, as this impersonation sock did.
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The Smiths try everything, and have been doing that since September 2017, when I uncovered impersonation sock puppetry on Wikipedia, used to defame an innocent user, and exposed it. They are currently creating several sock puppets a day for attack, mostly on Reddit at this point. Their scheme has been unravelling in many, many ways. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 22:36, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
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==Drop the lawsuit==
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Just drop it. Move on with your life. Thanks [[User:Move on with your life|Move on with your life]] ([[User talk:Move on with your life|talk]]) 14:22, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
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This may or may not be a Smith brother, but the Smiths have been "advising" me to do this since 2017. I decide what is my life, not them. I am responsible for what I accomplish and fail to accomplish, not them. The lawsuit is moving forward, the Amended Complaint has been filed, and we are waiting for the WMF to make the next move, as they choose. Legal opinion is starting to appear that just maybe this is not a "lolsuit," or as one defendant called it (before he had actually been named, by the way), "frivolous." Some people are learning or are about to learn that the too-common wiki contemptuous snark can be expensive. Reality has a way of intruding. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 19:44, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
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==Question==
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Hey, what is the deadline the WMF have to respond? Is it 21 days they have? When do you think they will respond? [[Special:Contributions/51.15.68.66|51.15.68.66]] 20:54, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
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:They have 14 days from the service of the Amended Complaint, or Monday, July 1. I've been told to expect it then.
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51.15, I have been in email communication with Jimmy Wales et al. Only hints given away but very likely The WMF will respond with motion to dismiss.  Abd will not get discovery... his defendants are resting easily.
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His lawsuit should have been filed against the RationalWiki Foundation. Do you plan on filing a new one against RationalWiki Abd? If your WMF lawsuit is dismissed how will you go on without discovery? Are you filing another ? ... [[Special:Contributions/51.158.166.175|51.158.166.175]] 00:48, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
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::While they could change their mind, very unlikly. They will file a Motion to Dismiss, and I pretty much know the arguments they will present, unless they come up with something new. Several points here. Their MtD will be based on certain principles that apply to them and not to the other defendants. This will not affect the suit against the other defendants. As to Discovery, I have little experience, but information can still be subpoenaed from them, and certainly I would attempt that. I would not file another suit unless I am unable to serve the defendants. Most of them can be served. If the suit is dismissed against the WMF, that might or might not cover Alexander.
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::The RMF is a separate issue. I have not dropped a certified letter on their registered agent, as i did with the WMF over a year ago. Yes, when this particular suit is out of my hair, I will probably do that, and if they ignore it, well, I have strong reason to believe that RMF agents or officers were involved in the conspiracy to defame. I rather doubt that the WMF is going to prevail with an MtD, from the precedents I have studied. But they will certainly try, and any sane lawyer will tell you that little or nothing is a slam-dunk. Something that non-lawyers don't seem to understand: Motions to Dismiss usually fail. The original WMF motion would not have failed, it would have succeeded, because the original complaint, being a form filled out with little study by a pro se plaintiff, was defective. I also knew that I would be able to amend it.
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::It is, my humble non-lawyer opinion, much stronger now, based on relatively recent law. We'll see what Jones Day comes up with. These are highly competent lawyers, and while that is important, it is not everything. Fact also matters. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 20:08, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
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:I suspect the IPS above might be Guy Chapman. He has responded to you here laughing at the lawsuit and citing your RationalWiki article https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/wikipedia-ban-editor-culture-war [[Special:Contributions/192.42.116.13|192.42.116.13]] 03:48, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
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::It's a TOR node, as is your access. Not so likely to be Chapman, but maybe. In any case, thanks for the heads up. I might not have noticed that. Chapman cites the now-moot WMF response as if it means something. He calls it a lolsuit, as have others. I hope they believe that and ignore the summons when served. That could be fun. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]])  20:08, 29 June 2019
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::: How long do you have to respond to the WMF? What date has it got to be filed on? Will you be making your response public on here like your amended complaint? I find Guy Chapman's public replies very odd. Nowhere in them did he deny the civil conspiracy. He has gone public about this but did not deny anything, I was assuming he would do the opposite, but maybe that is a tactic he is using. Who knows. [[Special:Contributions/178.17.170.91|178.17.170.91]] 01:40, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
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::::Monday, 7/15. However, I will probably be requesting court permission to amend the complaint, because it will save the time of the court if the complaint is amended now, and, if I read the regulations correctly, I should have requested permission to add the new defendant's names. I had automatic permission to amend the first time, and incorrectly assumed I could add plaintiff names then as part of that.
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::::Really, the Amended Complaint was the first attempt at proper pleading, the original complaint just being a pro se form provided by the court, filled out. I will likely drop Count 4 as being too difficult legally, and better filed as a class action with an attorney. Most of the WMF MFD was really about Count 4, which matters far less to me and which I added with less research.
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::::I am working on the MFD, I copied it to the wiki and annotated the Authorities page, creating links to a subpage for all cases cited, and compiling the subpages -- almost done -- has given me a strong sense of the authorities involved. The WMF has cited much out-of-context, pulling text that supports their position, ignoring text and fact that don't. Rather typical lawyer stuff.
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::::It is truly illuminating to read the cases cited, and, as well, to look at case dockets and see the trajectory of each case. It has often been very different from what the WMF would imply. Pro se plaintiffs sometimes win. Complaints dismissed because of defective pleading are re-activated by a request to amend and sometimes making it to discovery motivates the defendant to settle. Actually fighting a defamation suit is expensive. Even if you win. In one case, quite unusual, attorney's fees were awarded. That case had been filed by an attorney, it's an important case (against the parent company of Ripoff Report), and the court awarded the defendants attorney's fees, it was something like $200,000. An attorney has pointed out on Wikipediocracy how attempting to be covered for their costs would require that the WMF sue me, which would again open them up for discovery, the very thing that they probably most want to avoid.
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::::They are, I infer, hoping for a quick win while their costs are low, probably a few thousand dollars at this point. Maybe $10,000. If I make it past an MFD, then costs start to ramp up, rapidly. My goal has always been settlement, with their no-communication policy more or less demanding that I sue. They are attempting to preserve and justify that, to avoid encouraging any other lawsuits. But that's probably a false hope, because the precedents are clear. Most of the precedents they provide for dismissal are from cases *after discovery* in motions for summary judgment.
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::::Those opining on social media as if the WMF has blown my case out of the water are ignorant of the law and the precedents, and they look at the MFD and see what looks to them like impenetrable legalese, very "lawyer" sounding, and imagine that it's strong and must prevail. Not. It's actually weak as hell, but if I don't respond with some skill, they could win, at least temporarily. Most of these fast opinionators have no clue about how difficult a defamation MFD is, if there is *any reason to suspect untruth or malice* -- and, clearly, it does not need to be proof. But it is easily possible that I failed to properly marshal the facts and present them so the basis for proceeding is crystal clear. By now, I have read many of these cases multiple times, and precedents are actually clear and the only remaining question is whether I have properly pled the basis for suspicion. It appears to me that they have already cited all the cases I need. Convenient, eh?
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::::The WMF has been doing legal research for me. Nice of them, don't you think? They looked up cases that closely resemble mine in some way or other, especially the two Noonan cases and Doe v. Amherst. They pull from Noonan a quotation that is actually the opposite of what that court decided. If I wanted to rake them over the coals, they have given me cause, and it is actually possible that this is deliberate strategy against a pro se plaintiff (which would be, I think the legal term is "scuzzy").
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::::But I've been reading case law for years, and studied Rossi v. Darden in intimate detail, reading hearing transcripts, etc., collecting and analyzing the entire docket, with a thousand documents. (And then I attended the trial.) Judges hate it when parties fight in pleadings. I saw quite legitimate complaints shot down by the judge because they really don't want cases to turn on whether or not lawyers misbehaved. Pro se plaintiffs are famous for long and rambling pleadings that accuse defendant counsel of bad breath and bad behavior. And they beat their dog and should be disbarred. If they can provoke me to respond like that, they might influence the judge, though judges are generally very skilled at cutting through the bullshit.
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::::So my goal is for my pleadings, at least, to be as simple as possible, and to clarify the law without dwelling on irrelevancies. The WMF MTD is full of irrelevancies, such as references to my first complaint, which became totally moot, utterly irrelevant with the filing of the amendment. For defamation per se, actual damages are not necessarily relevant, and the only relevance of the number claimed is that it must be more than $75,000 to qualify for diversity jurisdiction in federal court. They make noises about attempting to seek the action to be removed to California, which may be barred -- according to some authorities -- but which would also fail even if allowed as a motion. I am not suing under the terms of use, but suing them for defamation, and nothing about the TOU allows them to defame me. (And so they mention that I raised the amount claimed from $200,000 to $2 million, which is utterly and totally irrelevant to "dismissal for failure to state a claim." So they have gunked up their motion, but I'm not about to point it out to the judge. That is also irrelevant! "Motion to strike for containing irrelevancies" would fail. Period. Never file a motion likely to fail unless it is required for future process!
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::::Yes. [http://coldfusioncommunity.net/w/index.php/User:Abd/Lomax_v._WikiMedia_Foundation/Motion_to_Dismiss#TABLE_OF_AUTHORITIES The current study is public], so anyone can study the law, and comment -- and advice -- is welcome. The case is *not* about the ban itself, but about publication of it, which is outside their Section 230 immunity. The ban itself did little harm to me, I had already abandoned Wikipedia and Wikiversity. But the publication did create harm, and this has exposed a massive flaw in their policies and practice. I actually pointed out the flaw years ago, as I recall, wrt other bans. This is not "content provided by others," over which they are protected, usually at least. They provided this content and published it.
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::::If the facts behind the ban come out, and they still maintain it, the egg is on their face, not mine. Honesty and open faith in truth are my plan. Theirs is defense through secrecy, arbitrary action through private investigation of unknown depth and care, without any due process and explicitly not appealable, and attempting to create legal impregnability. Fun for an organization purporting to serve humanity, eh?
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::::Basically, I win even if I lose. Unless, of course, I actually was a serious hazard. But I know I was not. Perhaps my evil twin was using my account to send disgusting and deeply harassing emails. (it is quite possible, by the way, that emails were spoofed, but a careful investigation would have disclosed that.)
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::::I will probably be asking for additional time to amend the complaint, it's reasonable and would cause no harm to the defendants. If granted, I won't be filing an opposition to the motion, other than maybe a one-page motion to moot it. But then my work preparing an amended complaint, I would keep open if I can. There is some risk to that, by the way. I'm prepared to take risks. I always have been. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 11:26, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
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==Guy Chapman==
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#Lomax_v._WikiMedia_Foundation,_Inc.
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"What does RationalWiki have to do with the WMF? Nothing, other than that Abd dragged his bullshit there. I actually left RW because Abd arrived and satrted trolling and some obnoxious tit refused to let me delete Abd's comments from my user page. I do my best to avoid him, have done since the arbitration case. There is no documented instance where debating anything with Abd has ever caused him to change his mind on anything, as far as I can tell, and since he's banned here he's not my problem. Guy (Help!) 19:34, 2 September 2019 (UTC)"
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So Guy Chapman quit RationalWiki because of you? [[Special:Contributions/185.100.87.206|185.100.87.206]] 20:41, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
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:Well, that was his claim. He's lying, he did not "do his best to avoid" me. When the attack on my exposure of the Smith socks began, he dove right in, and it is believed that he organized complaints. That part depends on the testimony of an anon, but it is plausible from the events as they came down. Somebody was pulling strings behind the scenes.
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:Long before that, but after the Arbitration, he [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=433842952#Abd started the community ban discussion on Wikipedia in 2011]. He also [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Abd_user_pages proposed for deletion] many of my user space pages, and he (and others) misrepresented them. So he is lying about doing his "best to avoid him, have done since the arbitration case."
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:*[https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=User:JzG&action=history JzG user page history on RatWiki], established in March 2010 and [ https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User:JzG updated in November]
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:*[https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/JzG Contributions]
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:JzG dove into RatWiki with very little clue how it was operating, and ran into some, ah, "issues." Not gust with me. [https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JzG&oldid=1102424 My last edit to his user page.] (I was a sysop then, and until the end of 2017. (Notice also the editing of Bad Faith, who was a sysop since 2011 (and retired with the right intact.)
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:David Gerard removed my last comments there, and I did not object, that was November 10, 2012. JzG did not retire until February 12, 2013, his last comments were arguing with a moderator, Blue. He did blame me, indirectly, his actual comment:
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::''I do not care what others do, the consensus last time was that it should not be an issue, the people who lost that argument have decided to pretend it never happened, the result is an insistence on an asinine non-policy. Since I have no time for any site that basically insists that the value of trolling fuckwittery by Abd on my talk page outweighs any potential value I might have to the project, I'm off. [[User:JzG|JzG]] ([[User talk:JzG|talk]]) 18:48, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
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:He did not remove his sysop rights, he still has them. The "non-policy" was community consensus, and he was reminded on February 11, and a moderator confirmed it. He had [https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JzG&diff=1147527&oldid=1147524 deleted this discussion].
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:Blue, the mod, replied to JzG's "Fuck this" farewell
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::''There was exactly one user who gave you the OK in the last discussion if I am reading the right one (at the top of this page), and that user was neither a mod nor a longstanding community member. I don't get why the extra few clicks to archive, so the history is searchable, instead of deleting, are such a problem for you that you'd just leave the site. By the way, David Gerard set up Pibot for you, so hopefully you won't have to archive or delete anything from now on. {{User:Blue/sig|}} 18:56, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
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:JzG never did care about consensus, unless he could manipulate it. He used me as an excuse, he actually hated a community where he did not have superior tools and backing. The user was Hipocrite, who was the troll sent by the faction to harass me after ArbCom reprimanded JzG, to provide cover for William M. Connolley to ban me. WMC protected Hipocrite when I attempted to add him to the ArbCom case against him, revert warring. I, in fact, stopped being active on RatWiki because of Hipocrite, who charmingly told me, November 8, 2012 to "go back to raping your kids." I took the events to the mods, and [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki_talk:All_things_in_moderation/Archive8#JzG.2C_Hipocrite.2C_and_David_Gerard this discussion was the result]. Seeing that truly vile trolling was tolerated without any disapproval at all, and having no critical interests there, I put up the nonparticipation notice November 10, 2012. [https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Abd&offset=2017092600000&limit=20&target=Abd 20 edits before September 2017].
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:Bottom line: I was not responsible for JzG leaving RatWiki, and certainly did not harass him off the site. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 23:46, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
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== Did you see this commentary over at [https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Topic:Uikcu1emvmw6e4z8 Suggested amendment: Public logging of bans made by CoC] ==
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Siebrand:
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:I’m against this. Even with the on wikitech-l suggested option of only making it public while the ban is in effect, if the log is kept on a wiki, the (history of) the ban list can (and will) be used for naming and shaming, long after punishment has been dealt and served.
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DBarratt (WMF)
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:Also, the ban might be worn as a badge of honor, which would encourage further abuse. :(
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Peachey88
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:Is having a list of bans performed by CoC any different than a wiki having Special:BlockList?
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DBarratt (WMF)
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:No, but perhaps that shouldn't exist either. Most websites don't list all of the users who have been banned, and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.
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Smalyshev (WMF)
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:Most websites are not collaborative projects supported by a huge community.
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DBarratt (WMF)
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:That's true, but as an example: GitHub, Stack Overflow, or any an all Open Source projects (including projects much much larger than ours). I can't think of a website/project (other than Wikimedia's) that publicly lists bans. I think the public log is an ''assumed'' virtue, when the existence of the list, may in fact, encourage more harassment. I have no evidence to suggest this, my point is only that the existence of such a list may have unintended consequences.
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DBarratt (WMF)
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:I don't believe there is value in transparency for the sake of transparency. Especially when that transparency comes at the cost of someone's privacy.
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Stjn
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:The problem of bad reputation that is provided by public logging of blocks in Wikimedia projects is real, and consequences of implementing it on a real world abuse would probably be more damaging to both parties, so finding a more sophisticated approach should not be scoffed at.
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See also how they have refrained from providing names of banned users in the list of CoC enforcement cases at [https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2019-September/092496.html Statistics for CoC Cases Term May 2018 to May 2019]
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[[User:69.230.244.1|69.230.244.1]] 06:31, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
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:Thanks. Interesting. They do not realize the distinction between a global ban of an account and of a person. In some cases, it's the same thing, but not in all. '''To ban a person requires notice to the person''', otherwise it has no legal effect. (And, by the way, I was not notified, to my knowledge. Yes, I found out about it, but that is not the same.) A person could be banned without touching the account, or the ban could specifically exempt the user's talk pages. A stated ban could be completely flexible. Then if it is considered necessary to enforce the ban, it could be done privately, it's trivial. All that would be required would be to change the password on login wiki.
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:The privacy rights of banned users were mentioned, but it was not taken up. They really don't care about the privacy rights of banned users, only of complainants. '''It is also clear that they think of bans as punitive''', betraying what is legally '''malice'''. ''Protection'' is not malice. They are aware that other sites don't list bans.
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:That discussion was a year ago. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 11:34, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
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== By the way, getting the judge to rule in your favor is just the beginning ==
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Then you have to figure out how to get the other side to actually obey the order. That can be tricky, as it's not immediately obvious what steps to take to get them to comply, unless it's a family law case where the other party didn't pay their child support or violated a restraining order or something like that. (In those cases, of course the system will hurry to remedy the situation, because there's a woman in distress, being victimized by some evil man who needs to be punished.)
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It feels good to get a court to rule in your favor, and maybe the moral victory is primarily what some people are looking for; but it can also leave you with a little bit of a hollow feeling when you realize, you're still pretty helpless to try to enforce it unless you have the gumption to keep pressing the issue. A lot of times, though, they'll just ignore you the same way they would a bill collector. [[Special:Contributions/69.244.230.1|69.244.230.1]] 17:52, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
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:I have no idea what this is about. Yes, there can be enforcement issues. However, one step at a time. There is value in judicial confirmation, in itself. At this point in Lomax v. WMF, simply surviving dismissal will have value, can open up other possibilities, and that's how I live, in possibility. And I do not base my life on despair or fear of failure. I trust reality, fully, and more than my own ideas. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 00:22, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
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::Yeah, I guess it depends on whom you're dealing with, and the nature of the situation. [[Special:Contributions/69.244.230.1|69.244.230.1]] 11:04, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
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== This case is [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t2YvyLqw3c&t=10m13s moving slower] than sloth taking shit ==
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[[Special:Contributions/69.244.230.1|69.244.230.1]] 04:56, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
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69.244.230.1 as I understand it, there is a 90-day rule respond time in some states in the US. The judge (Mastroianni) will likely take 3months to respond. I am guessing end of December or January and we will all find out. On a side note, I did notice Guy Chapman did edit Mark G. Mastroianni's [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mark_G._Mastroianni&diff=913050332&oldid=903483254 Wikipedia article], so he is following this case closely. [[Special:Contributions/207.180.228.204|207.180.228.204]] 19:39, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
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:Yeah, I noticed that problem paragraph, JzG was correct to take it out (I would have, if not banned). This is a case of an editor choosing material because of their own shallow reaction. Very common. The article explains the judge's reasoning, and it was within reasonable discretion. I expect fair treatment from this court. I don't know what he will decide. There are multiple issues.
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:As to time to decide, it has not yet been unusually long, as far as what I know. I do not know if there is any rule governing this. According to one source, sometimes they can take up to a year. But I don't think this case is that complex. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 20:08, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
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::Now that you mention it, yeah, I've seen response times of a year before. [[Special:Contributions/69.244.230.1|69.244.230.1]] 09:10, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
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==restored material from vandalism:==
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:::If the case is dismissed against the WMF (very likely!) I don't see any of the other defendants being served. Many of them live over seas (so jurisdiction issues), the alleged 'defamation' (supposed emails) happened in 2017 (so well over the one year law of defamation) and none of these alleged emails were ever made public so I fail to see how they could be "defamation" to Abd's character. Basically if Abd fails to get discovery from the WMF, he cannot serve the other defendants, he will not get access to their servers to see any supposed emails. He will have no case and he knows that.
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:::Alexander as a WMF employee dealt with the alleged emails but he no longer works for the WMF (would he even have access to old email logs?). His WMF email has been deleted for over a year. Abd's lawsuit is all about these alleged emails that the defendants apparently sent but no evidence exists that they were ever sent, so he needs discovery to get that but no judge in their right mind will grant this because I do not see how any laws have been broken. It is not illegal to send an email to the WMF foundation. Btw I recently had a huge email chain conversation with all of the defendants (including Jones Day), they all deny knowing each other and they all agree this case is going to be dismissed. Abd's "conspiracy" is fictional. Nobody defamed him in any email. But if you do want Chapman's, Umbrecht, Joshua, Alexander, Smith email etc ask me. I have them all. They would likely tell you the same thing. The case will be dismissed and is a waste of time. [[Special:Contributions/199.249.230.87|199.249.230.87]] 20:21, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
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:::: 69.244.230.1, time is not on abd's side. Most of abd's defendants are all in their 30s or 40s. Abd will be pushing 80 soon (average life in America is 78, and he is 76 next year). If there is indeed a year's wait then that will play in the defendants hands, I doubt he will receive further permission to amend any of his complaints but if he did try and file another suit it would take years. Abd on his blog says that if his case is dismissed against the WMF he is still trying to go after the other defendants. He will try and drag that out but get nowhere because he has no discovery. If he wants to try and drag that out against other defendants it will take years and years. Which ever way you look at it, the entire thing is a waste of time and he will not win because time is not on his side. I see this will ultimately end very bad for abd. Regards. [[Special:Contributions/199.249.230.87|199.249.230.87]] 20:36, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
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::::: Abd Lomax has a history of sock-puppeting and impersonating his enemies. 199.249.230.87 is obviously Abd himself. [[Special:Contributions/185.220.101.46|185.220.101.46]] 15:54, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
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:::::: Abd is 69.244.230.1 and 199.249.230.87. His case will be dismissed soon so he is now spreading misinformation in an attempt to frame his defendants. I doubt there was a massive email chain about all of this with Jones Day. Another of Abd's invented fantasies. There is no evidence for anything this man writes. Abd has lied about his background many times. Lying is typical for his behavior and he has no problem with it. He is not a truth seeker. [[Special:Contributions/195.176.3.19|195.176.3.19]] 18:32, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
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::::::: I am 69.244.230.1, who is also 199.249.230.87 and 195.176.3.19 who turns out to be abd talking to himself. [[Special:Contributions/85.248.227.163|85.248.227.163]] 19:34, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
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:::::::: 195.176.3.19 is abd, who is 85.248.227.163 who happens to be 69.244.230.1 [[Special:Contributions/31.7.63.194|31.7.63.194]] 21:16, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
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::::::::: This is 31.7.63.194, also 69.244.230.1, who is 199.249.230.87 an 85.248.227.163 who happens to be Abd who is actually 185.220.101.46. I will give you all a big wedgie! [[Special:Contributions/144.217.7.33|144.217.7.33]] 04:54, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
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::::::::::: Mark G. Mastroianni is a real decent guy. He needs to pull Lomax's trousers down and give him a good spanking for wasting the courts time. [[Special:Contributions/192.42.116.22|192.42.116.22]] 12:09, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
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:::Tell [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Tumbleman Viharo to stop socking] [[Special:Contributions/109.70.100.25|109.70.100.25]] 12:12, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
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==Consensus and Wikipedia==
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I was just realizing something about Wikipedia, which is that the default is often gridlock rather than forward progress.
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Theoretically, one editor can make a lot of good changes. And even if there are disputes, theoretically, through discussion, people can come to some mutually acceptable arrangement.
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But what happens a lot of times is that there's an argument, and what happens is that there's "no consensus" to change anything, and then the status quo prevails. Many good articles have been saved by AfDs ending as "no consensus" which means no deletion. But sometimes [[the wrong version]] stays in place because there's no consensus to change it.
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And that's where guys like JzG come in. They can change something quietly (e.g. adding something to the spam blacklist, which can't be reversed by non-admins) and then they and their buddies can just keep saying, to anyone who objects, "There's no consensus to change this status quo (that we put in place awhile back for a good reason)."
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It then becomes very hard to make a change, because you basically have to find an admin, supported by a united faction, to go up against him; and normally that's not gonna happen. It can't be just a lone admin going against him, because that'll get called "cowboy adminning" by his supporters over at ANI. It has to be a faction, but probably it's not possible to assemble a very cohesive faction that's going to stay around and continue fighting all the fights that need to be fought, rather than just being organized desultorily on an ad hoc basis, which doesn't really get the job done; or even if you do assemble it, then it's just one faction against another, which means [[no consensus]], aka, JzG's faction gets to control everything by default if he can slip some changes in that go unnoticed or unchallenged for awhile, to the point that they become a status quo.
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And they probably coordinate to get their enemies banned, to keep them from being able to organize a rival faction; they probably join together to twist narratives to make their adversaries look like bad guys. [[Special:Contributions/69.244.230.1|69.244.230.1]] 01:51, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
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== This kinda reminds me of Jimbo Wales's talk page ==
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There are some users, like Count Iblis, who don't seem to do much else but comment at Jimmy's talk page. [[Special:Contributions/69.244.230.1|69.244.230.1]] 22:12, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
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== [Looks over your shoulder at a Sudoku puzzle you're doing] "Gosh, I couldn't play a game like that, because I'm no good at math" ==
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Ever get that? [[Special:Contributions/69.244.230.1|69.244.230.1]] 22:13, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
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:No. However, it appears to be somewhat common idea. Sudoku have nothing to do with math. They are about clear logic, and numbers are useful because we all can count from 1-9, and counting is an aspect of Sudoku, but the symbols could be any image. Wordoku are Sudoku with 9 letters. It is exactly the same solution process, but a little harder because pattern recognition is easier with numbers. In fact, doing sudoku, I do not, in the solution process write numbers for candidates, I use dots in phone keybpad position, because they are smaller, faster to write, and allow room for additional marking. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 12:39, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
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== I was just reading [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Antandrus/observations_on_Wikipedia_behavior Antandrus's observations] ==
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:The highest compliment a troll can pay to you is to create an attack page about you elsewhere on the internet. It's as close to an admission of surrender as you will get, in addition to showing that you are doing something very right indeed. As in on-wiki trolling, the insults they choose tell you more about them than about you. Consider such pages to be monuments to your good work, but otherwise ignore them.
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Also:
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:As sarcasm is the protest of the weak, so attack sites are the whining of the incompetent, who failed to succeed at editing Wikipedia. They are unimportant. Continue creating useful and beautiful things, and spread good will in the world; if others are consumed by hate and vindictiveness, you may feel compassion for them, and be grateful you are not so afflicted.
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Hmm, that doesn't explain why they regard such pages as "harassment" warranting a ban. If Junius wrote pages on ED about various Wikipedians, he was just making an admission of surrender! But for some reason, people felt threatened. [[Special:Contributions/69.244.230.1|69.244.230.1]] 19:27, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
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:His ideas are not policy, though many of them incorporate at least some of the spirit of policy and guidelines. But the reality of Wikipedia is, too often, far from those ideals, and the community, in general, turns the other way. Those who care, get whacked, far too often. He is aware that there are toxic editors. What about toxic administrators? And what creates these? --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 00:17, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
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::He seems to have the usual view of "insiders good, outsiders bad." Admins being super-insiders, they would be even more virtuous than regular insiders. [[Special:Contributions/69.244.230.1|69.244.230.1]] 02:16, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
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:::Organizationally naive. Human behavior in social structures is dominated by the structure, it defacto encourages some behaviors and discourages others. Instead of looking at how the structure creates the issues experienced, the easy, knee-jerk path is to blame individuals, individually or as a class. If only these troublemakers, who are not here to Build an Encyclopedia, would straighten up and fly right, it would be so much better. And the few toxic administrators should never have been made admin in the first place. Obviously we need to be more careful (instead of noticing how admin behavior tends to decay over time, as they either burn out or become bolder, i.e., less careful).
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:::It is all backwards. Functional social structures generate functional human behavior, for the vast majority. The project, for a fundamental goal, neutrality, requires genuine consensus, not the fake consensus found by eliminating "POV pushers." To create genuine consensus process takes skilled facilitation, but that would be "bureaucracy," and was "no bureaucracy" a fundamental goal?
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:::I don't think so, but it is treated as if one. Did, indeed, the fundamental goals require anonymous administration, where nobody is responsible? Responsible supervision is what makes reliable source reliable. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 18:13, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
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== "Wow, good thing you do sudoku, it keeps the brain sharp" ==
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People say that kind of stuff to old people, don't they, as a way of saying, "Wow, you don't have shit that you're working on that's productive, but at least you're not letting your brain totally atrophy to the point where it would be more cumbersome trying to take care of you because you wouldn't be able to handle your own affairs."
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My dad does crossword puzzles and he gets that a lot. Basically people are saying, "Well, you don't do much other than sleep 16 hours a day and eat cheese slices out of the refrigerator, but at least you haven't entirely given up the use of your intellect, even if it is just basically a solitary, mentally masturbatory puzzle. You know, the good thing about mental masturbation is that at least it reminds you that you haven't gone mentally impotent yet."
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At least sudoku actually has a community and a fanbase to interact with, huh? [[Special:Contributions/69.244.230.1|69.244.230.1]] 14:40, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
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I have my finger in a lot of pies, but it happened that I discovered stuff about sudoku that nobody had written about -- if they did discover it. Yes, there is a community, and there are trolls among them (I consider complaining about how much someone writes to be trolling if it's hostile -- and Quora really exposed all this. People like detail when they are interested, and not if they aren't, and some trolls have never figured out they can simply ignore or even block a user from their view -- or they know it and their problem is not really the length. This was very clear on Wikipedia. It was claimed that I would represent that what I'd written was Proof! Proof I tell you! and that therefore they could not ignore it. Idiots, essentially. In any case, there are plenty of people who love what I write and prove it. There always have been such people. And if my writing is taken as polemic, sure. Brevit is the soul of wit [but not of spelling]. But most of what I write is not polemic, it is the collection of evidence and reports and yes, sometimes, opinion.
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As to keeping the brain sharp, maybe. Nothing wrong with that. What I'm doing, though, is not solitary, I'm in communication with others. What it really does for me as to "mental acuity" is show me the development of "tunnel vision" with age, so I need to develop systems to compensate for it. There are compensations, to be sure, that make aging a blessing, not just a curse. Good thing, eh? --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 15:05, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
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:I used to think so, but now I'm not really so sure. [[Special:Contributions/69.244.230.1|69.244.230.1]] 20:15, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 20:15, 12 December 2019

Please contact me by email[edit]

It is urgent that the person who left a message on this page yesterday contact me privately. This can be done by enabling email here and sending me a mail, also notify me on this talk page that you have sent the mail. You may also have someone you trust contact me. That we communicate more directly is important for your protection. --Abd (talk) 11:09, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, I will not contact you by email because you will trace it. You have an old public IP I used. It traces to Florida not Reading UK. You will never find out who I am. The Wikimedia Foundation will never tell you.

I have emailed my identity to the Wikimedia Foundation, they know who I am, I recently emailed Michael Umbrecht my identity. I have a long-standing Wikipedia account - I did not want to disclose publicly. Your material on cold fusion deserved to be deleted. I have not done anything wrong in voting to delete your pseudoscience. Please remove my IP from your lawsuit. Max (talk) 16:01, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

I very much appreciate that you told the truth, if you did. But there have been so many lies and impersonations that I cannot be sure. I believe you because the story you told made many otherwise mysterious pieces fit together. But to know for sure, your real identity is needed.
First of all, I cannot trace you through an anonymous email unless you don't take precautions, and I think you know how to take them. (And even then, without a court order, converting IP to name is not easy.)
If the case survives dismissal, it proceeds to discovery, where the WMF will be compelled to disclose information it has. They will attempt to protect privacy, I'm sure, but that protection will be limited. There is no privilege for private defamation, my opinion, and only privileged communications are most intensely protected, and those are still not fully protected.
Many things I would say to you privately that I cannot in public. And this is public. I want to communicate privately to protect you, not to harm you. I suggest enabling email for Max, using an anonymous email account that I cannot trace. We can then establish that the account is the same as Max here, and there are other steps that can be taken to establish your probity, short of revealing identity.
There no real safety except in the truth. --Abd (talk) 20:48, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Deep trolling[edit]

The Smith brothers, getting desperate, are pulling out all the stops. This message was left here today:


Dennis,

I emailed you the divorce papers Nasima Bernhardt (talk) 11:26, 11 June 2019 (UTC)


Nasima was my first wife, we were married for ten years and had five wonderful children, and seven wonderful grandchildren so far. We were divorced almost forty years ago, and are good friends. She remarried years later and Bernhardt is her present married name. I spent some time with her and a pile of kids and grandkids last Thanksgiving. Life is good, even if it sometimes takes unexpected turns.

Besides this being nonsense, and she would not call me "Dennis," and she would certainly not use a Tor node for access, as this impersonation sock did.

The Smiths try everything, and have been doing that since September 2017, when I uncovered impersonation sock puppetry on Wikipedia, used to defame an innocent user, and exposed it. They are currently creating several sock puppets a day for attack, mostly on Reddit at this point. Their scheme has been unravelling in many, many ways. --Abd (talk) 22:36, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Drop the lawsuit[edit]

Just drop it. Move on with your life. Thanks Move on with your life (talk) 14:22, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

This may or may not be a Smith brother, but the Smiths have been "advising" me to do this since 2017. I decide what is my life, not them. I am responsible for what I accomplish and fail to accomplish, not them. The lawsuit is moving forward, the Amended Complaint has been filed, and we are waiting for the WMF to make the next move, as they choose. Legal opinion is starting to appear that just maybe this is not a "lolsuit," or as one defendant called it (before he had actually been named, by the way), "frivolous." Some people are learning or are about to learn that the too-common wiki contemptuous snark can be expensive. Reality has a way of intruding. --Abd (talk) 19:44, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Question[edit]

Hey, what is the deadline the WMF have to respond? Is it 21 days they have? When do you think they will respond? 51.15.68.66 20:54, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

They have 14 days from the service of the Amended Complaint, or Monday, July 1. I've been told to expect it then.

51.15, I have been in email communication with Jimmy Wales et al. Only hints given away but very likely The WMF will respond with motion to dismiss. Abd will not get discovery... his defendants are resting easily.

His lawsuit should have been filed against the RationalWiki Foundation. Do you plan on filing a new one against RationalWiki Abd? If your WMF lawsuit is dismissed how will you go on without discovery? Are you filing another ? ... 51.158.166.175 00:48, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

While they could change their mind, very unlikly. They will file a Motion to Dismiss, and I pretty much know the arguments they will present, unless they come up with something new. Several points here. Their MtD will be based on certain principles that apply to them and not to the other defendants. This will not affect the suit against the other defendants. As to Discovery, I have little experience, but information can still be subpoenaed from them, and certainly I would attempt that. I would not file another suit unless I am unable to serve the defendants. Most of them can be served. If the suit is dismissed against the WMF, that might or might not cover Alexander.
The RMF is a separate issue. I have not dropped a certified letter on their registered agent, as i did with the WMF over a year ago. Yes, when this particular suit is out of my hair, I will probably do that, and if they ignore it, well, I have strong reason to believe that RMF agents or officers were involved in the conspiracy to defame. I rather doubt that the WMF is going to prevail with an MtD, from the precedents I have studied. But they will certainly try, and any sane lawyer will tell you that little or nothing is a slam-dunk. Something that non-lawyers don't seem to understand: Motions to Dismiss usually fail. The original WMF motion would not have failed, it would have succeeded, because the original complaint, being a form filled out with little study by a pro se plaintiff, was defective. I also knew that I would be able to amend it.
It is, my humble non-lawyer opinion, much stronger now, based on relatively recent law. We'll see what Jones Day comes up with. These are highly competent lawyers, and while that is important, it is not everything. Fact also matters. --Abd (talk) 20:08, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
I suspect the IPS above might be Guy Chapman. He has responded to you here laughing at the lawsuit and citing your RationalWiki article https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/wikipedia-ban-editor-culture-war 192.42.116.13 03:48, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
It's a TOR node, as is your access. Not so likely to be Chapman, but maybe. In any case, thanks for the heads up. I might not have noticed that. Chapman cites the now-moot WMF response as if it means something. He calls it a lolsuit, as have others. I hope they believe that and ignore the summons when served. That could be fun. --Abd (talk) 20:08, 29 June 2019
How long do you have to respond to the WMF? What date has it got to be filed on? Will you be making your response public on here like your amended complaint? I find Guy Chapman's public replies very odd. Nowhere in them did he deny the civil conspiracy. He has gone public about this but did not deny anything, I was assuming he would do the opposite, but maybe that is a tactic he is using. Who knows. 178.17.170.91 01:40, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
Monday, 7/15. However, I will probably be requesting court permission to amend the complaint, because it will save the time of the court if the complaint is amended now, and, if I read the regulations correctly, I should have requested permission to add the new defendant's names. I had automatic permission to amend the first time, and incorrectly assumed I could add plaintiff names then as part of that.
Really, the Amended Complaint was the first attempt at proper pleading, the original complaint just being a pro se form provided by the court, filled out. I will likely drop Count 4 as being too difficult legally, and better filed as a class action with an attorney. Most of the WMF MFD was really about Count 4, which matters far less to me and which I added with less research.
I am working on the MFD, I copied it to the wiki and annotated the Authorities page, creating links to a subpage for all cases cited, and compiling the subpages -- almost done -- has given me a strong sense of the authorities involved. The WMF has cited much out-of-context, pulling text that supports their position, ignoring text and fact that don't. Rather typical lawyer stuff.
It is truly illuminating to read the cases cited, and, as well, to look at case dockets and see the trajectory of each case. It has often been very different from what the WMF would imply. Pro se plaintiffs sometimes win. Complaints dismissed because of defective pleading are re-activated by a request to amend and sometimes making it to discovery motivates the defendant to settle. Actually fighting a defamation suit is expensive. Even if you win. In one case, quite unusual, attorney's fees were awarded. That case had been filed by an attorney, it's an important case (against the parent company of Ripoff Report), and the court awarded the defendants attorney's fees, it was something like $200,000. An attorney has pointed out on Wikipediocracy how attempting to be covered for their costs would require that the WMF sue me, which would again open them up for discovery, the very thing that they probably most want to avoid.
They are, I infer, hoping for a quick win while their costs are low, probably a few thousand dollars at this point. Maybe $10,000. If I make it past an MFD, then costs start to ramp up, rapidly. My goal has always been settlement, with their no-communication policy more or less demanding that I sue. They are attempting to preserve and justify that, to avoid encouraging any other lawsuits. But that's probably a false hope, because the precedents are clear. Most of the precedents they provide for dismissal are from cases *after discovery* in motions for summary judgment.
Those opining on social media as if the WMF has blown my case out of the water are ignorant of the law and the precedents, and they look at the MFD and see what looks to them like impenetrable legalese, very "lawyer" sounding, and imagine that it's strong and must prevail. Not. It's actually weak as hell, but if I don't respond with some skill, they could win, at least temporarily. Most of these fast opinionators have no clue about how difficult a defamation MFD is, if there is *any reason to suspect untruth or malice* -- and, clearly, it does not need to be proof. But it is easily possible that I failed to properly marshal the facts and present them so the basis for proceeding is crystal clear. By now, I have read many of these cases multiple times, and precedents are actually clear and the only remaining question is whether I have properly pled the basis for suspicion. It appears to me that they have already cited all the cases I need. Convenient, eh?
The WMF has been doing legal research for me. Nice of them, don't you think? They looked up cases that closely resemble mine in some way or other, especially the two Noonan cases and Doe v. Amherst. They pull from Noonan a quotation that is actually the opposite of what that court decided. If I wanted to rake them over the coals, they have given me cause, and it is actually possible that this is deliberate strategy against a pro se plaintiff (which would be, I think the legal term is "scuzzy").
But I've been reading case law for years, and studied Rossi v. Darden in intimate detail, reading hearing transcripts, etc., collecting and analyzing the entire docket, with a thousand documents. (And then I attended the trial.) Judges hate it when parties fight in pleadings. I saw quite legitimate complaints shot down by the judge because they really don't want cases to turn on whether or not lawyers misbehaved. Pro se plaintiffs are famous for long and rambling pleadings that accuse defendant counsel of bad breath and bad behavior. And they beat their dog and should be disbarred. If they can provoke me to respond like that, they might influence the judge, though judges are generally very skilled at cutting through the bullshit.
So my goal is for my pleadings, at least, to be as simple as possible, and to clarify the law without dwelling on irrelevancies. The WMF MTD is full of irrelevancies, such as references to my first complaint, which became totally moot, utterly irrelevant with the filing of the amendment. For defamation per se, actual damages are not necessarily relevant, and the only relevance of the number claimed is that it must be more than $75,000 to qualify for diversity jurisdiction in federal court. They make noises about attempting to seek the action to be removed to California, which may be barred -- according to some authorities -- but which would also fail even if allowed as a motion. I am not suing under the terms of use, but suing them for defamation, and nothing about the TOU allows them to defame me. (And so they mention that I raised the amount claimed from $200,000 to $2 million, which is utterly and totally irrelevant to "dismissal for failure to state a claim." So they have gunked up their motion, but I'm not about to point it out to the judge. That is also irrelevant! "Motion to strike for containing irrelevancies" would fail. Period. Never file a motion likely to fail unless it is required for future process!
Yes. The current study is public, so anyone can study the law, and comment -- and advice -- is welcome. The case is *not* about the ban itself, but about publication of it, which is outside their Section 230 immunity. The ban itself did little harm to me, I had already abandoned Wikipedia and Wikiversity. But the publication did create harm, and this has exposed a massive flaw in their policies and practice. I actually pointed out the flaw years ago, as I recall, wrt other bans. This is not "content provided by others," over which they are protected, usually at least. They provided this content and published it.
If the facts behind the ban come out, and they still maintain it, the egg is on their face, not mine. Honesty and open faith in truth are my plan. Theirs is defense through secrecy, arbitrary action through private investigation of unknown depth and care, without any due process and explicitly not appealable, and attempting to create legal impregnability. Fun for an organization purporting to serve humanity, eh?
Basically, I win even if I lose. Unless, of course, I actually was a serious hazard. But I know I was not. Perhaps my evil twin was using my account to send disgusting and deeply harassing emails. (it is quite possible, by the way, that emails were spoofed, but a careful investigation would have disclosed that.)
I will probably be asking for additional time to amend the complaint, it's reasonable and would cause no harm to the defendants. If granted, I won't be filing an opposition to the motion, other than maybe a one-page motion to moot it. But then my work preparing an amended complaint, I would keep open if I can. There is some risk to that, by the way. I'm prepared to take risks. I always have been. --Abd (talk) 11:26, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Guy Chapman[edit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#Lomax_v._WikiMedia_Foundation,_Inc.

"What does RationalWiki have to do with the WMF? Nothing, other than that Abd dragged his bullshit there. I actually left RW because Abd arrived and satrted trolling and some obnoxious tit refused to let me delete Abd's comments from my user page. I do my best to avoid him, have done since the arbitration case. There is no documented instance where debating anything with Abd has ever caused him to change his mind on anything, as far as I can tell, and since he's banned here he's not my problem. Guy (Help!) 19:34, 2 September 2019 (UTC)"

So Guy Chapman quit RationalWiki because of you? 185.100.87.206 20:41, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Well, that was his claim. He's lying, he did not "do his best to avoid" me. When the attack on my exposure of the Smith socks began, he dove right in, and it is believed that he organized complaints. That part depends on the testimony of an anon, but it is plausible from the events as they came down. Somebody was pulling strings behind the scenes.
Long before that, but after the Arbitration, he started the community ban discussion on Wikipedia in 2011. He also proposed for deletion many of my user space pages, and he (and others) misrepresented them. So he is lying about doing his "best to avoid him, have done since the arbitration case."
JzG dove into RatWiki with very little clue how it was operating, and ran into some, ah, "issues." Not gust with me. My last edit to his user page. (I was a sysop then, and until the end of 2017. (Notice also the editing of Bad Faith, who was a sysop since 2011 (and retired with the right intact.)
David Gerard removed my last comments there, and I did not object, that was November 10, 2012. JzG did not retire until February 12, 2013, his last comments were arguing with a moderator, Blue. He did blame me, indirectly, his actual comment:
I do not care what others do, the consensus last time was that it should not be an issue, the people who lost that argument have decided to pretend it never happened, the result is an insistence on an asinine non-policy. Since I have no time for any site that basically insists that the value of trolling fuckwittery by Abd on my talk page outweighs any potential value I might have to the project, I'm off. JzG (talk) 18:48, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
He did not remove his sysop rights, he still has them. The "non-policy" was community consensus, and he was reminded on February 11, and a moderator confirmed it. He had deleted this discussion.
Blue, the mod, replied to JzG's "Fuck this" farewell
There was exactly one user who gave you the OK in the last discussion if I am reading the right one (at the top of this page), and that user was neither a mod nor a longstanding community member. I don't get why the extra few clicks to archive, so the history is searchable, instead of deleting, are such a problem for you that you'd just leave the site. By the way, David Gerard set up Pibot for you, so hopefully you won't have to archive or delete anything from now on. User:Blue/sig 18:56, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
JzG never did care about consensus, unless he could manipulate it. He used me as an excuse, he actually hated a community where he did not have superior tools and backing. The user was Hipocrite, who was the troll sent by the faction to harass me after ArbCom reprimanded JzG, to provide cover for William M. Connolley to ban me. WMC protected Hipocrite when I attempted to add him to the ArbCom case against him, revert warring. I, in fact, stopped being active on RatWiki because of Hipocrite, who charmingly told me, November 8, 2012 to "go back to raping your kids." I took the events to the mods, and this discussion was the result. Seeing that truly vile trolling was tolerated without any disapproval at all, and having no critical interests there, I put up the nonparticipation notice November 10, 2012. 20 edits before September 2017.
Bottom line: I was not responsible for JzG leaving RatWiki, and certainly did not harass him off the site. --Abd (talk) 23:46, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Did you see this commentary over at Suggested amendment: Public logging of bans made by CoC[edit]

Siebrand:

I’m against this. Even with the on wikitech-l suggested option of only making it public while the ban is in effect, if the log is kept on a wiki, the (history of) the ban list can (and will) be used for naming and shaming, long after punishment has been dealt and served.

DBarratt (WMF)

Also, the ban might be worn as a badge of honor, which would encourage further abuse. :(

Peachey88

Is having a list of bans performed by CoC any different than a wiki having Special:BlockList?

DBarratt (WMF)

No, but perhaps that shouldn't exist either. Most websites don't list all of the users who have been banned, and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

Smalyshev (WMF)

Most websites are not collaborative projects supported by a huge community.

DBarratt (WMF)

That's true, but as an example: GitHub, Stack Overflow, or any an all Open Source projects (including projects much much larger than ours). I can't think of a website/project (other than Wikimedia's) that publicly lists bans. I think the public log is an assumed virtue, when the existence of the list, may in fact, encourage more harassment. I have no evidence to suggest this, my point is only that the existence of such a list may have unintended consequences.

DBarratt (WMF)

I don't believe there is value in transparency for the sake of transparency. Especially when that transparency comes at the cost of someone's privacy.

Stjn

The problem of bad reputation that is provided by public logging of blocks in Wikimedia projects is real, and consequences of implementing it on a real world abuse would probably be more damaging to both parties, so finding a more sophisticated approach should not be scoffed at.

See also how they have refrained from providing names of banned users in the list of CoC enforcement cases at Statistics for CoC Cases Term May 2018 to May 2019 69.230.244.1 06:31, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Interesting. They do not realize the distinction between a global ban of an account and of a person. In some cases, it's the same thing, but not in all. To ban a person requires notice to the person, otherwise it has no legal effect. (And, by the way, I was not notified, to my knowledge. Yes, I found out about it, but that is not the same.) A person could be banned without touching the account, or the ban could specifically exempt the user's talk pages. A stated ban could be completely flexible. Then if it is considered necessary to enforce the ban, it could be done privately, it's trivial. All that would be required would be to change the password on login wiki.
The privacy rights of banned users were mentioned, but it was not taken up. They really don't care about the privacy rights of banned users, only of complainants. It is also clear that they think of bans as punitive, betraying what is legally malice. Protection is not malice. They are aware that other sites don't list bans.
That discussion was a year ago. --Abd (talk) 11:34, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

By the way, getting the judge to rule in your favor is just the beginning[edit]

Then you have to figure out how to get the other side to actually obey the order. That can be tricky, as it's not immediately obvious what steps to take to get them to comply, unless it's a family law case where the other party didn't pay their child support or violated a restraining order or something like that. (In those cases, of course the system will hurry to remedy the situation, because there's a woman in distress, being victimized by some evil man who needs to be punished.)

It feels good to get a court to rule in your favor, and maybe the moral victory is primarily what some people are looking for; but it can also leave you with a little bit of a hollow feeling when you realize, you're still pretty helpless to try to enforce it unless you have the gumption to keep pressing the issue. A lot of times, though, they'll just ignore you the same way they would a bill collector. 69.244.230.1 17:52, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

I have no idea what this is about. Yes, there can be enforcement issues. However, one step at a time. There is value in judicial confirmation, in itself. At this point in Lomax v. WMF, simply surviving dismissal will have value, can open up other possibilities, and that's how I live, in possibility. And I do not base my life on despair or fear of failure. I trust reality, fully, and more than my own ideas. --Abd (talk) 00:22, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, I guess it depends on whom you're dealing with, and the nature of the situation. 69.244.230.1 11:04, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

This case is moving slower than sloth taking shit[edit]

69.244.230.1 04:56, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

69.244.230.1 as I understand it, there is a 90-day rule respond time in some states in the US. The judge (Mastroianni) will likely take 3months to respond. I am guessing end of December or January and we will all find out. On a side note, I did notice Guy Chapman did edit Mark G. Mastroianni's Wikipedia article, so he is following this case closely. 207.180.228.204 19:39, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that problem paragraph, JzG was correct to take it out (I would have, if not banned). This is a case of an editor choosing material because of their own shallow reaction. Very common. The article explains the judge's reasoning, and it was within reasonable discretion. I expect fair treatment from this court. I don't know what he will decide. There are multiple issues.
As to time to decide, it has not yet been unusually long, as far as what I know. I do not know if there is any rule governing this. According to one source, sometimes they can take up to a year. But I don't think this case is that complex. --Abd (talk) 20:08, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Now that you mention it, yeah, I've seen response times of a year before. 69.244.230.1 09:10, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

restored material from vandalism:[edit]

If the case is dismissed against the WMF (very likely!) I don't see any of the other defendants being served. Many of them live over seas (so jurisdiction issues), the alleged 'defamation' (supposed emails) happened in 2017 (so well over the one year law of defamation) and none of these alleged emails were ever made public so I fail to see how they could be "defamation" to Abd's character. Basically if Abd fails to get discovery from the WMF, he cannot serve the other defendants, he will not get access to their servers to see any supposed emails. He will have no case and he knows that.
Alexander as a WMF employee dealt with the alleged emails but he no longer works for the WMF (would he even have access to old email logs?). His WMF email has been deleted for over a year. Abd's lawsuit is all about these alleged emails that the defendants apparently sent but no evidence exists that they were ever sent, so he needs discovery to get that but no judge in their right mind will grant this because I do not see how any laws have been broken. It is not illegal to send an email to the WMF foundation. Btw I recently had a huge email chain conversation with all of the defendants (including Jones Day), they all deny knowing each other and they all agree this case is going to be dismissed. Abd's "conspiracy" is fictional. Nobody defamed him in any email. But if you do want Chapman's, Umbrecht, Joshua, Alexander, Smith email etc ask me. I have them all. They would likely tell you the same thing. The case will be dismissed and is a waste of time. 199.249.230.87 20:21, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
69.244.230.1, time is not on abd's side. Most of abd's defendants are all in their 30s or 40s. Abd will be pushing 80 soon (average life in America is 78, and he is 76 next year). If there is indeed a year's wait then that will play in the defendants hands, I doubt he will receive further permission to amend any of his complaints but if he did try and file another suit it would take years. Abd on his blog says that if his case is dismissed against the WMF he is still trying to go after the other defendants. He will try and drag that out but get nowhere because he has no discovery. If he wants to try and drag that out against other defendants it will take years and years. Which ever way you look at it, the entire thing is a waste of time and he will not win because time is not on his side. I see this will ultimately end very bad for abd. Regards. 199.249.230.87 20:36, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
Abd Lomax has a history of sock-puppeting and impersonating his enemies. 199.249.230.87 is obviously Abd himself. 185.220.101.46 15:54, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
Abd is 69.244.230.1 and 199.249.230.87. His case will be dismissed soon so he is now spreading misinformation in an attempt to frame his defendants. I doubt there was a massive email chain about all of this with Jones Day. Another of Abd's invented fantasies. There is no evidence for anything this man writes. Abd has lied about his background many times. Lying is typical for his behavior and he has no problem with it. He is not a truth seeker. 195.176.3.19 18:32, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
I am 69.244.230.1, who is also 199.249.230.87 and 195.176.3.19 who turns out to be abd talking to himself. 85.248.227.163 19:34, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
195.176.3.19 is abd, who is 85.248.227.163 who happens to be 69.244.230.1 31.7.63.194 21:16, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
This is 31.7.63.194, also 69.244.230.1, who is 199.249.230.87 an 85.248.227.163 who happens to be Abd who is actually 185.220.101.46. I will give you all a big wedgie! 144.217.7.33 04:54, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
Mark G. Mastroianni is a real decent guy. He needs to pull Lomax's trousers down and give him a good spanking for wasting the courts time. 192.42.116.22 12:09, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
Tell Viharo to stop socking 109.70.100.25 12:12, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Consensus and Wikipedia[edit]

I was just realizing something about Wikipedia, which is that the default is often gridlock rather than forward progress.

Theoretically, one editor can make a lot of good changes. And even if there are disputes, theoretically, through discussion, people can come to some mutually acceptable arrangement.

But what happens a lot of times is that there's an argument, and what happens is that there's "no consensus" to change anything, and then the status quo prevails. Many good articles have been saved by AfDs ending as "no consensus" which means no deletion. But sometimes the wrong version stays in place because there's no consensus to change it.

And that's where guys like JzG come in. They can change something quietly (e.g. adding something to the spam blacklist, which can't be reversed by non-admins) and then they and their buddies can just keep saying, to anyone who objects, "There's no consensus to change this status quo (that we put in place awhile back for a good reason)."

It then becomes very hard to make a change, because you basically have to find an admin, supported by a united faction, to go up against him; and normally that's not gonna happen. It can't be just a lone admin going against him, because that'll get called "cowboy adminning" by his supporters over at ANI. It has to be a faction, but probably it's not possible to assemble a very cohesive faction that's going to stay around and continue fighting all the fights that need to be fought, rather than just being organized desultorily on an ad hoc basis, which doesn't really get the job done; or even if you do assemble it, then it's just one faction against another, which means no consensus, aka, JzG's faction gets to control everything by default if he can slip some changes in that go unnoticed or unchallenged for awhile, to the point that they become a status quo.

And they probably coordinate to get their enemies banned, to keep them from being able to organize a rival faction; they probably join together to twist narratives to make their adversaries look like bad guys. 69.244.230.1 01:51, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

This kinda reminds me of Jimbo Wales's talk page[edit]

There are some users, like Count Iblis, who don't seem to do much else but comment at Jimmy's talk page. 69.244.230.1 22:12, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

[Looks over your shoulder at a Sudoku puzzle you're doing] "Gosh, I couldn't play a game like that, because I'm no good at math"[edit]

Ever get that? 69.244.230.1 22:13, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

No. However, it appears to be somewhat common idea. Sudoku have nothing to do with math. They are about clear logic, and numbers are useful because we all can count from 1-9, and counting is an aspect of Sudoku, but the symbols could be any image. Wordoku are Sudoku with 9 letters. It is exactly the same solution process, but a little harder because pattern recognition is easier with numbers. In fact, doing sudoku, I do not, in the solution process write numbers for candidates, I use dots in phone keybpad position, because they are smaller, faster to write, and allow room for additional marking. --Abd (talk) 12:39, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

I was just reading Antandrus's observations[edit]

The highest compliment a troll can pay to you is to create an attack page about you elsewhere on the internet. It's as close to an admission of surrender as you will get, in addition to showing that you are doing something very right indeed. As in on-wiki trolling, the insults they choose tell you more about them than about you. Consider such pages to be monuments to your good work, but otherwise ignore them.

Also:

As sarcasm is the protest of the weak, so attack sites are the whining of the incompetent, who failed to succeed at editing Wikipedia. They are unimportant. Continue creating useful and beautiful things, and spread good will in the world; if others are consumed by hate and vindictiveness, you may feel compassion for them, and be grateful you are not so afflicted.

Hmm, that doesn't explain why they regard such pages as "harassment" warranting a ban. If Junius wrote pages on ED about various Wikipedians, he was just making an admission of surrender! But for some reason, people felt threatened. 69.244.230.1 19:27, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

His ideas are not policy, though many of them incorporate at least some of the spirit of policy and guidelines. But the reality of Wikipedia is, too often, far from those ideals, and the community, in general, turns the other way. Those who care, get whacked, far too often. He is aware that there are toxic editors. What about toxic administrators? And what creates these? --Abd (talk) 00:17, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
He seems to have the usual view of "insiders good, outsiders bad." Admins being super-insiders, they would be even more virtuous than regular insiders. 69.244.230.1 02:16, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
Organizationally naive. Human behavior in social structures is dominated by the structure, it defacto encourages some behaviors and discourages others. Instead of looking at how the structure creates the issues experienced, the easy, knee-jerk path is to blame individuals, individually or as a class. If only these troublemakers, who are not here to Build an Encyclopedia, would straighten up and fly right, it would be so much better. And the few toxic administrators should never have been made admin in the first place. Obviously we need to be more careful (instead of noticing how admin behavior tends to decay over time, as they either burn out or become bolder, i.e., less careful).
It is all backwards. Functional social structures generate functional human behavior, for the vast majority. The project, for a fundamental goal, neutrality, requires genuine consensus, not the fake consensus found by eliminating "POV pushers." To create genuine consensus process takes skilled facilitation, but that would be "bureaucracy," and was "no bureaucracy" a fundamental goal?
I don't think so, but it is treated as if one. Did, indeed, the fundamental goals require anonymous administration, where nobody is responsible? Responsible supervision is what makes reliable source reliable. --Abd (talk) 18:13, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

"Wow, good thing you do sudoku, it keeps the brain sharp"[edit]

People say that kind of stuff to old people, don't they, as a way of saying, "Wow, you don't have shit that you're working on that's productive, but at least you're not letting your brain totally atrophy to the point where it would be more cumbersome trying to take care of you because you wouldn't be able to handle your own affairs."

My dad does crossword puzzles and he gets that a lot. Basically people are saying, "Well, you don't do much other than sleep 16 hours a day and eat cheese slices out of the refrigerator, but at least you haven't entirely given up the use of your intellect, even if it is just basically a solitary, mentally masturbatory puzzle. You know, the good thing about mental masturbation is that at least it reminds you that you haven't gone mentally impotent yet."

At least sudoku actually has a community and a fanbase to interact with, huh? 69.244.230.1 14:40, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

I have my finger in a lot of pies, but it happened that I discovered stuff about sudoku that nobody had written about -- if they did discover it. Yes, there is a community, and there are trolls among them (I consider complaining about how much someone writes to be trolling if it's hostile -- and Quora really exposed all this. People like detail when they are interested, and not if they aren't, and some trolls have never figured out they can simply ignore or even block a user from their view -- or they know it and their problem is not really the length. This was very clear on Wikipedia. It was claimed that I would represent that what I'd written was Proof! Proof I tell you! and that therefore they could not ignore it. Idiots, essentially. In any case, there are plenty of people who love what I write and prove it. There always have been such people. And if my writing is taken as polemic, sure. Brevit is the soul of wit [but not of spelling]. But most of what I write is not polemic, it is the collection of evidence and reports and yes, sometimes, opinion.

As to keeping the brain sharp, maybe. Nothing wrong with that. What I'm doing, though, is not solitary, I'm in communication with others. What it really does for me as to "mental acuity" is show me the development of "tunnel vision" with age, so I need to develop systems to compensate for it. There are compensations, to be sure, that make aging a blessing, not just a curse. Good thing, eh? --Abd (talk) 15:05, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

I used to think so, but now I'm not really so sure. 69.244.230.1 20:15, 12 December 2019 (UTC)