We do not know if Penon followed this protocol, nor if IH approved that document. If they approved it, however, it does allow Rossi to install the instrumentation and to take the measurements, with Penon popping in every four months. It does not mention “Guaranteed Performance Test,” so approval might not indicate acceptance of the Doral installation as a GPT, and certainly doesn’t agree to the starting date (as required by the Second Amendment).
If the test is legally viewed as a valid GPT then IH have enough circumstantial evidence of dirty dealings (we don’t know the strength of the direct evidence) to make the matter of how Penon generated his report crucial. He will not, we presume, be there to defend it. It it likely can be proven that he was not on the ground much. So: this is a weak point in Rossi’s case. Like most stuff here we don’t have enough info to know how weak, and personally I think the legal argument about this not being the GPT, from evidence already disclosed, is very very strong. In that case this does not much matter.
More or less, it is one among many weak points. IH has to be prepared for the case to go to trial, so they have covered more than may be necessary.
it is interesting that the agreement (page 4) says:
“At their respective election, the Company and Leonardo may have representatives present to observe the Validation process and discuss the testing and results with the ERV.” If Rossi barred Joe from the FL location, did he violate the agreement to have allow IH’s representative to observe the process?
That language refers to the Validation Test, not the GPT. The contemplated GPT was to be in the IH facility, and IH control would be assumed. They might or might not allow Rossi to be present, but someone would have to set up and operate the Plant so that it works. (like, “Be sure to allow the inlet pipes to become half-full…”) I will resist the temptation to make a sarcastic comment. Excluding IH representatives, of their choice, from being present at the Doral plant, would certainly violate the apparent intention of the GPT. The exclusion of Murray violated the Terms Sheet; IH could have nailed him immediately on that, but apparently elected to let it slide because this was not a GPT. After all, they hadn’t signed anything agreeing that it was, I assume (since Rossi has made no reference to such a piece of evidence.)
They were following their original plan, which was not what Rossi claimed, to defraud him, but to give him every opportunity to fairly teach them how to make devices, and …. what if the Doral plant were actually working? While in hindsight, the first visit of Darden or Vaughn would have nailed that it was not working — surely they could report room temperature and the lack of apparent ventilation equipment to an engineer, though this is not rocket science — hindsight is so excellent because it knows much more. Often we don’t think of the obvious until later. It’s that way in my life!
If Penon is not forthcoming, did Rossi violate the agreement to allow them to discuss the testing and results with the ERV?
No. This would not be a Rossi problem, but a Penon problem. I assume there was an agreement between Penon and IH. If no formal agreement, IH was paying him for his assessment, and Rossi would not have the legal power to prevent Penon from discussion the matter with IH, and, in fact, at the test end, there was obviously a discussion with Murray. Penon didn’t respond, that’s all. That was his choice, not Rossi’s. If Rossi were seen prohibiting Penon from discussion, and Penon complied, that would itself be evidence of collusion and probable fraud. The apparent lack of response, itself, is bad enough!
There is more to the agreement than the ERV just turning in a report and then vanishing. who had to do the measurement, being able to discuss the results, the measurement of the heated fluid and not the chilled return, the level of heat, the exact days of operation, exact agreed to date for start, ….. and so on. This has yet to be discussed.
The point is that this all looks quite suspicious, and juries will readily look for suspicious behavior.
with the same assumptions that opened the door for IH Fanboy (see above).
All case files are indexed and annotated on Rossi v Darden case files
so if you are looking for a file, that’s a good place to start. I do intend to write a case overview, but … not yet. The Merge documents already created are part of that project, they would be referenced.
The 3rd link, aka second amendment, removes the “requirement the Guaranteed Performance Test period commence immediately upon delivery of the E-Cat Unit, and instead required the period to commence on a date agreed to in writing by the parties.”
So the delay was approved by IH. I forget if we’ve seen an agreed upon start date, (but I thought we did), so maybe you have a point there.
No, there is not one piece of evidence that has been introduced or made available to us that there was a written agreement on a start date, or, in fact, any agreement at all, other than Rossi says that they agreed, without saying when or where or how. However, LENRC gets bonus points for
- Reading case documents instead of just reacting to what others have said.
- Quoting material from a case document that might be disagreeable to him.
- Agreeing that others might have a point.
Yes, all case files are hosted there as well. Originally, I was hosting all files on the yahoogroup newvortex filespace, because it was handy. However, that required signup, and then the yahoogroup file facility broke. So, in November, I copied all the files to CFC.net and created an index and annotation page: Rossi v. Darden case files.
Readers are free to use whichever they choose, but… if you are looking, say, for an exhibit with the letter about Hydro Fusion, see if Eric’s compilation helps find it! You can create a link to the googledrive docs, once you find it. You can easily link to pages here, and linking is, of course, welcome. I’m not so thrilled with an LF administrator copying my file from here to LF, to avoid linking. In fact , I could call that copyright violation. The documents themselves are public domain, but I just might start watermarking them. Until then, I know the admin did this because he kept my idiosyncratic file name.
It’s 10 cents per page, with a limit of $3.00 for a multipage document. There is also a charge for accessing the docket, but that’s optional. I haven’t figured it all out, it may be that by limiting the docket search, one can reduce the charge to maybe 10 cents per access. I probably get more reimbursement than Eric, I’d suspect, though it hasn’t actually arrived yet (from an anonymous donor, and, no, *not* Industrial Heat.) My PACER fees for the third quarter were a tad over $50. Donations to Infusion Institute, Inc., gratefully accepted.
Comments continued. Most are beating a dead horse. However, there are riders of the dead horse who are still trying to whip it up.
IH has a document, written by Rossi, that says the test was for a sale of heat. What does Rossi have?…. nothing presented yet. What is there to argue?
I don’t get the idea that somehow a sale of heat takes it outside of the domain of a GPT. The ERV was making quarterly reports. IH was making visits and approving of it along the way. A final report was generated by the ERV. I kind of doubt that the judge/jury will go along with this notion that it wasn’t the GPT. But it definitely isn’t a slam dunk–for either side.
This is written as if a GPT is some sort of known thing. It was a creation of the Agreement, as modified by the Second Amendment. It has a very specific requirement that trumps all others: a written agreement, signed by all the parties, agreeing to the test date. ERV is also a creature of the Agreement. That’s a bit more vague, because an ERV could perform other measurements. Nothing in Court is a “slam dunk,” but some things are easier than others. Essentially, *there is no evidence presented, so far, that the Doral test was the described GPT. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary, i.e., circumstantial evidence — which, if reasonably clear, can speak volumes to a jury. Most telling, though, is the lack of a written agreement. Were this some totally fatal event, i.e., if a test could not be repeated, I can imagine a court bending over backwards to allow a test to be considered equivalent. Problem is, the lack of a writing was remediable at any time. All Rossi had to do was get their written consent. There is no sign that he even attempted this. The documents we have show that he presented a completely different set of reasons for the Doral installation. A sale of heat, etc. It is correct that this could have been combined with a GPT. It does not negate “GPT” in itself. But it creates an alternate reason for IH to allow the Plant to be moved there, and to allow operation, and even to allow measurement as suggested by Penon. It then allows us to understand why IH would permit this thing to happen, with Rossi exercising such complete control. It’s because it didn’t matter! That is quite inconsistent with “”GPT.”
And now Alan Smith tells us why he’s clueless:
So now you want me to believe your gossip, and not what I read in the documents?
Come on man, get it out. Enough of this “I know something, but can’t tell, because it’s a secret”.
Hi Shane. I apologise for not being able to take this as seriously as some of you guys. To me this is a squalid little commercial bitch-fest of no importance to the future of humanity, although I am grateful to Eric for posting the documentation. As for listening to gossip and retailing it, not at all, I was just using my common sense. There is an old gag that goes – Q ‘What steps are you taking to avoid getting into trouble? A ‘Great big ones’. Ponder that.
Smith has shown, again and again, that he doesn’t know what is happening. He is one of the people who fill topics with useless comments, and he obviously hasn’t been reading what he’s hacked up with deletions and topic locking.
Rossi v. Darden is a lawsuit involving Andrea Rossi, who has largely dominated LENR news since 2011. The involvement of IH with Rossi had created an impression that maybe Rossi, even though he had never allowed truly independent testing, actually had something, these were serious investors with access to serious money. IH also is now probably the largest single funding source in the LENR field, thanks to the Woodford investment, and their work with many LENR researchers. They will likely be hosting ICCF-21 in North Carolina. There has never been a lawsuit like this, and this suit is forcing into the open what was previously secret.
Part of the effect of Rossi on LENR is that many amateurs began investigating NiH reactions, particularly after Parkhomov claimed to have replicated Lugano. (He didn’t but that’s another story.) This created the demand for what Smith’s company, Looking for Heat, has on offer. Easily, Smith is unhappy with this turn of events, he would rather it go away, disappear, so he calls it a “squalid little bitch fest.” From the Rossi side, he’s been cheated out of $89 million. From the IH side, they have invested maybe $20 million in Rossi technology, with Rossi getting at least $11.5 million of that, plus a lot of fairly sophisticated manufacturing they did, and in return, the ***hole sued them for about $270 million. And this is a “bitch fest”? No, if I want to apply “squalid little” to something, it would be lenr-forum, which is playing a stupid game with me and coldfusioncommunity.net, with no care or concern about actually serving the LENR community. And most of that appears to be sourced with — or defending — Alan Smith.